Need advice - aspiring business analyst

[Xanthus]

Maybe someone here can help me out...

Late last year I completed a certificate in business analysis with distinction at FTI - I have a real knack for it. But I have no other qualifications and no BA experience, although I've got a mind for business. I'm 25, I manage the direct marketers department at a SasS company. I've got great aptitude for technology but no real technical skills - i.e. I understand coding, networking, databases, etc. but can't do any myself. Do I stand a chance at starting a BA career? All the classifieds I see seem to make it seem like not having a degree and experience makes it highly unlikely.

Putting my CV on the net isn't an option right now for various reasons so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[xrapidx]

Where are you?

 

[Xanthus]

Johannesburg.

 

[Xanthus]

Why do you ask?

 

[Greg C]

Why do you ask?

Unfortunately a Business analyst is the front runner in terms of technology implementation. They are the heart and soul of the project,changing a companies process up,dealing with clients who do not want change,implementing solutions etc.
With all this in mind the paperwork is there as the CFO and CEO of companies will grill you.
Most of the time if not 99% you will be implementing a type of financial solution for a company(possibly a banking solution) and as such you will need to interpret financial data into something technology wise.

I am a business analyst and I ask you thing. I can see you have drive and want.Programming is not that necessary if you have a decent team,what is badly needed is the WIDE range of knowledge and technical ability you give.

So my question to you is this.If I asked you to take the messiest chart of accounts for 3 different systems that a company uses,and top you to remap it according to new legislation and financial statements,could you do it without the CFO making changes?

I am not saying you are incapable,I am saying you do need further training or possibly a degree.
As you are the frontman for these projects,you need to be very well qualified.

Look to maybe do a bcom informatics,or the diploma upgrade in Business analysis at FTI.
You need more business and accounting knowledge.
Hope I was not offensive in any way but these are the facts

 

[Xanthus]

Unfortunately a Business analyst is the front runner in terms of technology implementation. They are the heart and soul of the project,changing a companies process up,dealing with clients who do not want change,implementing solutions etc.
With all this in mind the paperwork is there as the CFO and CEO of companies will grill you.
Most of the time if not 99% you will be implementing a type of financial solution for a company(possibly a banking solution) and as such you will need to interpret financial data into something technology wise.

I am a business analyst and I ask you thing. I can see you have drive and want.Programming is not that necessary if you have a decent team,what is badly needed is the WIDE range of knowledge and technical ability you give.

So my question to you is this.If I asked you to take the messiest chart of accounts for 3 different systems that a company uses,and top you to remap it according to new legislation and financial statements,could you do it without the CFO making changes?

I am not saying you are incapable,I am saying you do need further training or possibly a degree.
As you are the frontman for these projects,you need to be very well qualified.

Look to maybe do a bcom informatics,or the diploma upgrade in Business analysis at FTI.
You need more business and accounting knowledge.
Hope I was not offensive in any way but these are the facts

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback and no, it's not taken in a negative way I am enrolled for the upgrade program, it starts in July - the lecturers said it'd be foolish for me not to do it as it's clearly what I'm cut out for.

The financial scenario I completely understand, I don't see myself ever working at a financial institution for that reason. Unless I have a very specific scope of work that does not involve financial aspects. I'm busy training myself in technical skills - C# .Net currently, with more in the pipeline - design patterns, SQL, Javascript/HTML/XML/CSS, Networking, PHP. If I ever did anything business related I doubt it would be more than a year long cert/dip. in business management.

 

[hellfire]

Maybe someone here can help me out...

Late last year I completed a certificate in business analysis with distinction at FTI - I have a real knack for it. But I have no other qualifications and no BA experience, although I've got a mind for business. I'm 25, I manage the direct marketers department at a SasS company. I've got great aptitude for technology but no real technical skills - i.e. I understand coding, networking, databases, etc. but can't do any myself. Do I stand a chance at starting a BA career? All the classifieds I see seem to make it seem like not having a degree and experience makes it highly unlikely.

Putting my CV on the net isn't an option right now for various reasons so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

There are a lot of BAs with no technical skills in the workforce at the moment. They are definitely inferior BAs. Try get some technical skills. Maybe look at junior system analysis roles to start you off in that direction.

 

[Xanthus]

There are a lot of BAs with no technical skills in the workforce at the moment. They are definitely inferior BAs. Try get some technical skills. Maybe look at junior system analysis roles to start you off in that direction.

So basically I have a shot, but I won't be as good as a BA with technical skills? Just to clarify, when I say I can't do it myself, I mean I won't get a job doing those things. I can't work as a dev but I can code basic C# apps. I can't implement a commercial DB but I can write SQL queries and I understand the relational aspect, normalisation, etc. (which I've used as part of my job to pull custom reports, even made my own DB to hold the reports). I can't configure a network but I understand the OSI, DNS, VPNs, MPLS, etc., etc. Does that not help at all?

What would a junior systems analyst role require?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[hellfire]

So basically I have a shot, but I won't be as good as a BA with technical skills? Just to clarify, when I say I can't do it myself, I mean I won't get a job doing those things. I can't work as a dev but I can code basic C# apps. I can't implement a commercial DB but I can write SQL queries and I understand the relational aspect, normalisation, etc. (which I've used as part of my job to pull custom reports, even made my own DB to hold the reports). I can't configure a network but I understand the OSI, DNS, VPNs, MPLS, etc., etc. Does that not help at all?

Yes - it will help. You have some technical skills at least - this wasn't clear from your OP. You need to understand the fundamentals of software and hardware so that your specs are realistic and your handling of business expectations (i.e. what you tell them is possible) is also realistic.

Obviously the interest in business is also key - it's about the mixture of business and technical competency and interest.

What would a junior systems analyst role require?

Thanks for the reply.

A junior systems analyst usually manages a particular system end-to-end. This would involve diagnosis of problems, resolution of queries, management of new implementations etc across hardware and software used for that system. Example of a 'system' is an ECM or a CRM. There is a lot more to the role, and it will differ from place to place, but that is a high level summary

 

[Xanthus]

Yes - it will help. You have some technical skills at least - this wasn't clear from your OP. You need to understand the fundamentals of software and hardware so that your specs are realistic and your handling of business expectations (i.e. what you tell them is possible) is also realistic.

Obviously the interest in business is also key - it's about the mixture of business and technical competency and interest.



A junior systems analyst usually manages a particular system end-to-end. This would involve diagnosis of problems, resolution of queries, management of new implementations etc across hardware and software used for that system. Example of a 'system' is an ECM or a CRM. There is a lot more to the role, and it will differ from place to place, but that is a high level summary

Ah that's good to know. Thanks, yes it was a bit vague

I've already done something similar - I implemented a CRM module at a previous company, designing the reports and triggers, configuring mailer integration, workflows, user roles, business rules, etc. I just always attached systems analyst to varsity postgrad in computer science...

 

[hellfire]

Ah that's good to know. Thanks, yes it was a bit vague

I've already done something similar - I implemented a CRM module at a previous company, designing the reports and triggers, configuring mailer integration, workflows, user roles, business rules, etc. I just always attached systems analyst to varsity postgrad in computer science...

Add support to that and you have your typical junior system analyst

 

[Fuma]

I think people are using system analyst and business analyst interchangeably. A BA does not need to be technical at all. A system analyst does. You can have a BA where no actual computerized system is required.
The BA will look at gathering the requirements, then outline the business processes and and. So it will be up to the business whether they want to computerize the system. The business requirements (The What) will remain the same, where as the implementation (The How) might change. The BA doesn't care how the "system" will be delivered to the business. That is why BAs are not friends with developers.

 

[Xanthus]

Add support to that and you have your typical junior system analyst

Thank you very much, I would never have considered systems analysis until you suggested it!

 

[Xanthus]

I think people are using system analyst and business analyst interchangeably. A BA does not need to be technical at all. A system analyst does. You can have a BA where no actual computerized system is required.
The BA will look at gathering the requirements, then outline the business processes and and. So it will be up to the business whether they want to computerize the system. The business requirements (The What) will remain the same, where as the implementation (The How) might change. The BA doesn't care how the "system" will be delivered to the business. That is why BAs are not friends with developers.

That kind of contradicts the BABOK in a way, doesn't it? I mean we're supposed to bridge the gap... I've done some BPR work in my current organisation so I understand the context for what you're saying. But I wouldn't be confident in writing a spec and plan for software design if I had no concept of how devs think, work, interact, etc. I studied mech. engineering for 2 years at varsity and the one thing that my machine design lecturer taught me that I'll never forget is: it's easy for you to draw a component, but if you don't consider how someone will manufacture it for you (in fact, whether or not it's practical or even possible), you've failed. Which is why we had to do workshop practice. Not so that we could manufacture prototypes, but so that we understood the processes and challenges that the hands-on technical folk worked with day-to-day in implementing our designs.

 

[AniV]

Maybe someone here can help me out...

Late last year I completed a certificate in business analysis with distinction at FTI - I have a real knack for it. But I have no other qualifications and no BA experience, although I've got a mind for business. I'm 25, I manage the direct marketers department at a SasS company. I've got great aptitude for technology but no real technical skills - i.e. I understand coding, networking, databases, etc. but can't do any myself. Do I stand a chance at starting a BA career? All the classifieds I see seem to make it seem like not having a degree and experience makes it highly unlikely.

Putting my CV on the net isn't an option right now for various reasons so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I am a business analyst (slash Process Analyst). I think you sound like a great BA candidate. I am the only BA in my entire team that has a professional degree of any sort. I come from an industrial engineering background. The others all did varied administration work, did their certificate or diploma through someone and now work as BAs.

You sound more able to do my job than me - I don't see why anything should stop you. As long as you're willing to start in a junior position (you're only a year younger than me, but you have working experience to compensate for not having a degree) then I reckon you should go for it. The fact that you've done the certificate and are enrolled in the Upgrade program already makes you more BA-qualified than I am. I haven't done a single BA course of any kind.

It's all just logic. You should come work for us. We need more BAs!

 

[Xanthus]

I am a business analyst (slash Process Analyst). I think you sound like a great BA candidate. I am the only BA in my entire team that has a professional degree of any sort. I come from an industrial engineering background. The others all did varied administration work, did their certificate or diploma through someone and now work as BAs.

You sound more able to do my job than me - I don't see why anything should stop you. As long as you're willing to start in a junior position (you're only a year younger than me, but you have working experience to compensate for not having a degree) then I reckon you should go for it. The fact that you've done the certificate and are enrolled in the Upgrade program already makes you more BA-qualified than I am. I haven't done a single BA course of any kind.

It's all just logic. You should come work for us. We need more BAs!

Wow, that's great to hear, thanks I wouldn't sell myself short if I were you, the most valuable thing I got from the course was simulated practical work. That and a mindset. I'd kill for practical exposure.

I have no delusions of starting off as anything other than a junior BA . However, I can't work for peanuts - my landlord isn't interested in my career aspirations and the related sacrifices... Which brings me to another question, dodgy surveys aside, do BA's get compensated well in reality? By well I mean in relation to their colleagues in PM/dev.

So there really is a shortage... What is it that you guys do?

 

[AniV]

Wow, that's great to hear, thanks I wouldn't sell myself short if I were you, the most valuable thing I got from the course was simulated practical work. That and a mindset. I'd kill for practical exposure.

I have no delusions of starting off as anything other than a junior BA . However, I can't work for peanuts - my landlord isn't interested in my career aspirations and the related sacrifices... Which brings me to another question, dodgy surveys aside, do BA's get compensated well in reality? By well I mean in relation to their colleagues in PM/dev.

So there really is a shortage... What is it that you guys do?

Well I don't know about a shortage in general, but my team is down a BA and even before that we had more work than we could manage.

Compensation - well, I'm a junior BA and I get a reasonable salary. Of course my starting salary was higher because I have a degree in Engineering and they had to account for that. I could probably get paid more working as an actual Engineer elsewhere, but I like my company. Those "dodgy surveys" aren't far off. Go to the JobCrystal site and check out their salary scales for BAs in Johannesburg in the Communications and Information Technology sectors. Those values are pretty accurate.

Project Managers, if they have many years of experience and plenty of successful projects in the bank, they can earn good money. Devs also earn good money if they have the expertise to make them invaluable for specific software or languages or systems. The BA doesn't necessarily earn less. I'd say it was decently relative.

I never said I thought I wasn't a good BA - all I meant is that the courses you've already done technically make you more qualified as a BA than I am.

Edit: I'd like to know why you say it isn't feasible to put your CV out. I think you should look online for BA jobs, and go for them. Any of them. All of them. Just do it - send in your CV. Here's the thing - it takes about 6months to a year for you to get reasonably well-enough acquainted with the systems, software and processes of your employer in order to start becoming valuable and useful on system development projects. Until then you'd likely have to do smaller projects with low complexity, or shadow a BA on advanced projects till you have a clue. The sooner you get yourself into a BA position, the sooner you can start building towards actually becoming one.

Second edit: Every company will be a bit different - at mine we are a double role. We serve as both Business Analysts and Process Analysts. Half my time is spent documenting business requirements and functional specification and developing process models for new development projects - be it system integration or new functionality/system development. The other half is spent in the business, consulting with people in a large variety of jobs, learning about what they do and documenting it in the form of standardised inter-dependent process models. We are busy modelling every single process in our entire business into a large modelling database with interfaces between processes. That way anybody in business can see what it is that anybody else does, how they do it, how all the various people, processes and systems are interlinked.. and we can identify issues and improve the processes. This part is where my Industrial Engineering plays quite heavily - I had to learn my company's specific modelling standards, and teach myself how to model in the software they use - but it's straight up Industrial engineering process optimisation. So it's a balance between 2 very related but different things.

 

[Xanthus]

Well I don't know about a shortage in general, but my team is down a BA and even before that we had more work than we could manage.

Compensation - well, I'm a junior BA and I get a reasonable salary. Of course my starting salary was higher because I have a degree in Engineering and they had to account for that. I could probably get paid more working as an actual Engineer elsewhere, but I like my company. Those "dodgy surveys" aren't far off. Go to the JobCrystal site and check out their salary scales for BAs in Johannesburg in the Communications and Information Technology sectors. Those values are pretty accurate.

Project Managers, if they have many years of experience and plenty of successful projects in the bank, they can earn good money. Devs also earn good money if they have the expertise to make them invaluable for specific software or languages or systems. The BA doesn't necessarily earn less. I'd say it was decently relative.

I never said I didn't think I wasn't a good BA - all I meant is that the courses you've already done technically make you more qualified as a BA than I am.

I'm in a very similar scenario - there's not much prospect for me here as a BA but I really like the company. Catch 22. How did you find your job? Why did you end up as a BA instead of an engineer? I have a friend who graduated in Industrial Engineering and is now looking to move into a BA-ish role, apparently a lot of Ind. Eng. guys do.

 

[Xanthus]

Edit: I'd like to know why you say it isn't feasible to put your CV out. I think you should look online for BA jobs, and go for them. Any of them. All of them. Just do it - send in your CV. Here's the thing - it takes about 6months to a year for you to get reasonably well-enough acquainted with the systems, software and processes of your employer in order to start becoming valuable and useful on system development projects. Until then you'd likely have to do smaller projects with low complexity, or shadow a BA on advanced projects till you have a clue. The sooner you get yourself into a BA position, the sooner you can start building towards actually becoming one.

My company is recruiting so hard and fast it's scary. Our staff number is increasing faster than the fuel price. I have very specific experience that will land my CV on my HR manager's desk before the week is over. I do some hiring and I've lost faith in recruitment agents, so I can't risk it.

 

[AniV]

I'm in a very similar scenario - there's not much prospect for me here as a BA but I really like the company. Catch 22. How did you find your job? Why did you end up as a BA instead of an engineer? I have a friend who graduated in Industrial Engineering and is now looking to move into a BA-ish role, apparently a lot of Ind. Eng. guys do.

I had to choose whether I wanted to be a boring paper-pushing documentation-driven Engineer for some silly corporate somewhere, or give BPA a chance here at a great company, but earn a bit less than I could as an Engineer. So it really wasn't much of a choice - I don't do "corporate".

My current job was really just a series of (un)fortunate events. I graduated in the middle of the year and needed a job ASAP. I went to a job fair at UP and trawled for all the potential jobs I could find and applied for them all. Unfortunately the modern trend is that companies have these "Graduate Programs", but they all run from January - December, so I was either 6 months late or 6 months early. I couldn't wait. In the end I had 3 job options - teaching (peanuts, placement in a rural area), working on a mine in Witbank or Mpumalanga for a mining company (ridiculous money, but I'm newly married and am not going to spend 4 nights a week sleeping in miner housing in Witbank), or an off-kilter Graduate Program position at a firm in Joburg who wanted an Industrial Engineer ASAP. I took the Grad Program position.

8 months later things were going badly and I was about to resign. Each grad has a mentor from a different division or company to assist them with various things. I went to my mentor (from a sister company) and told him I was going to quit. He told me to chill, introduced me to some nice folks at his work, took me to a company function, and assisted me through my meetings with HR and the Grad manager to explain that I was about to resign unless they made a plan. 4 days later I received an email informing me that he had arranged for me to be transferred to his company and I was officially a Grad Program employee with them. Turns out those informal meetings with the nice folks had actually been job interviews and I didn't even know it.

4 months of Grad Program later I was offered a permanent position as a BA and I took it.
And that's my silly story. I didn't set out to become a BA, but then again I didn't actually have a real plan for Engineering either. That's another story in itself. If I'd had my way I would have studied medicine and been a really terrible doctor, probably. However I can definitely understand why Industrial Engineers go for BPA. We're kinda over-qualified for the position, but you earn decent money, don't have to do much math or technical stuff and can work in just about any industry or company on the face of the planet.