Need help with Office infrastructure

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Adenoid Hynkel

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Hi guys,

15-20 Users need to make use of 2-3 Databases via odbc connection.

Option 1
Each User has Win XP installed and odbc is setup on each individual Pc. Here we would only need one server.

or

Each USer gets Linux and connects remotely to a VPS. 3-4 Servers are needed here, which get split up in 4-5 VPS's. Each VPS has WIn XP installed.

What would be more cost effective for the long run? Or do you guys have any other Ideas? :cool:
 
I would go for option1 as option2 makes zero sense here. Why install Linux when your anyway going to run WinXP.

I guess this is a client software issue that you have. Give some more details here. Are you trying to save on software licences or you trying to get the best setup.

EDIT: Also look as to what role each PC will eventually have. Will users need M$ Office or can they use OpenOffice, do they need specific software, etc. And why do you want to use WinXP and no Server for the OS?
 
Last edited:
cbrunsdonza said:
I would go for option1 as option2 makes zero sense here. Why install Linux when your anyway going to run WinXP.

I guess this is a client software issue that you have. Give some more details here. Are you trying to save on software licences or you trying to get the best setup.

EDIT: Also look as to what role each PC will eventually have. Will users need M$ Office or can they use OpenOffice, do they need specific software, etc. And why do you want to use WinXP and no Server for the OS?
Click to expand...

Yea, you are right. Option 2 really does not make sense. OS license wise. Its late, so I wasn't thinking :D

Microsoft Office is not needed. Openoffice will do. All users run the same software (CRM), which only runs on Windows.

Im looking for a solution to save on OS licenses.
 
If your running an OS specific application then stick to the OS. Short term gain, long term loss. I develop an internal callcenter app and mine runs on PHP to overcome OS dependencies.

Just get XP Home instead. With service pack 3 or even just 2 loaded it will meet all your needs and it can connect to a domain should you run a Server OS.

If possible then look at alternative CRMs.
 
Thanks cbrunsdonza

An alternative CRM is not an option. Its self developed and cut to the companies needs.
A buddy of mine told me that his office PC literally does not have a HDD and no OS installed. He said it loads the OS over the network? He says its def Windows. What would that be? Windows Server 2003/2008?
 
blogbytes said:
A buddy of mine told me that his office PC literally does not have a HDD and no OS installed. He said it loads the OS over the network? He says its def Windows. What would that be? Windows Server 2003/2008?
Click to expand...

This pc is being used as a Thin Client.
 
blogbytes said:
As far as I know, a thin client is just a low spec mini pc. What software is used though to accomplish that setup. Thin Client to server?
Click to expand...

A thin client can be a low spec'd mini pc, but it can also be an appliance hardware device, like a Wyse terminal.

To connect a thin client to a server you have various options: one method is to use virtual desktops (this will not meet your requirement of saving OS costs). The other option is to use MS terminal services/Citrix (optional).

There are a few things to consider:

You need a TS/Citrix CAL for each connected user.
If you run XP on the client side desktop, then you need an XP license (If you run linux or a thin client with ThinOS/Linux then there is license cost).
The server hosting the terminal sessions requires a Server license and a CAL for each connected user (if you already have users then you may already have this).

Lastly, I don't think it is possible to connect XP Home to a domain, although it may have been changed for SP3, I don't think is has....
 
Why not go for the Linux route, using unixodbc to connect to your database?
 
cbrunsdonza said:
If your running an OS specific application then stick to the OS. Short term gain, long term loss. I develop an internal callcenter app and mine runs on PHP to overcome OS dependencies.

Just get XP Home instead. With service pack 3 or even just 2 loaded it will meet all your needs and it can connect to a domain should you run a Server OS.

If possible then look at alternative CRMs.
Click to expand...

XP Home cannot connect properly to a domain.
 
blogbytes said:
Thanks cbrunsdonza

An alternative CRM is not an option. Its self developed and cut to the companies needs.
A buddy of mine told me that his office PC literally does not have a HDD and no OS installed. He said it loads the OS over the network? He says its def Windows. What would that be? Windows Server 2003/2008?
Click to expand...

The Thin Client application is a load of crap. Its actually a Linux install running remote desktop. The problems arise when users want to use USB devices at a terminal. Also licencing costs are extreme as your running a M$ Server with seat licences.

If you want to check it out then go to the new internet cafe in Main Road. The one between Matrix and Van Jewelers. They had this setup when they where still an IT college and they can tell you the ins and outs.
 
cbrunsdonza said:
Define properly. It connects and for small networks it will meet most needs. PS: This is if you have Service Pack 2/3 installed.
Click to expand...

Good point - it cannot join a domain, i.e. the machine cannot be moved from a workgroup to a domain. You can still access resources located on a domain though....

cbrunsdonza said:
The Thin Client application is a load of crap. Its actually a Linux install running remote desktop. The problems arise when users want to use USB devices at a terminal. Also licencing costs are extreme as your running a M$ Server with seat licences.
Click to expand...
Any application in particular or are all of them just crap? ;). With regard to USB devices, most thin clients now support USB mapping, i.e. connecting a USB device to a local client and presenting it in the remote session.

WRT to licenses, the MS server license is not an additional cost if you already have existing pcs connecting to the server, print/sharing etc. The additional cost is for the TSCAL....
 
So lets say I buy Windows 2003 server with 5cals. Does this mean 5 users do not need a XP license?
 
blogbytes said:
So lets say I buy Windows 2003 server with 5cals. Does this mean 5 users do not need a XP license?
Click to expand...

No, you still need XP licenses, lets take a look at the various licenses:

1. Windows 2003 - Each server requires a Server OS license, i.e. each server requires 1 server license; if you have 1 file server and 1 web server, then you need two licenses.
2. Windows 2003 CAL - Each user connecting to the server (regardless of client type) requires a Windows 2003 CAL (client access license). If you have 10 users connecting to a share, then you require 10 CALs. Note that each CAL is per user,; if you have 10 users connecting to a file share on one server, and the same 10 users connecting to a web server, then you only need 10 CALs.
3. XP licenses - Required for the client machine, i.e. each desktop with XP installed requires an XP OS license.

In the above scenario you have 10 users, with 10 PCs, connecting to two servers. You require:

2 x Windows 2003 OS licenses
10 x Windows 2003 Server CALs
10 x XP licenses.

If you used a thin client solution, then you would need to add TS/Citrix CALS to the above.

If you have a Linux desktop, connecting to a Windows server, then you would require only the Windows 2003 licenses (OS and CAL). If you had XP desktops connecting to a Linux server, then you would only require the XP licenses.
 
Conradl said:
No, you still need XP licenses, lets take a look at the various licenses:

1. Windows 2003 - Each server requires a Server OS license, i.e. each server requires 1 server license; if you have 1 file server and 1 web server, then you need two licenses.
2. Windows 2003 CAL - Each user connecting to the server (regardless of client type) requires a Windows 2003 CAL (client access license). If you have 10 users connecting to a share, then you require 10 CALs. Note that each CAL is per user,; if you have 10 users connecting to a file share on one server, and the same 10 users connecting to a web server, then you only need 10 CALs.
3. XP licenses - Required for the client machine, i.e. each desktop with XP installed requires an XP OS license.

In the above scenario you have 10 users, with 10 PCs, connecting to two servers. You require:

2 x Windows 2003 OS licenses
10 x Windows 2003 Server CALs
10 x XP licenses.

If you used a thin client solution, then you would need to add TS/Citrix CALS to the above.

If you have a Linux desktop, connecting to a Windows server, then you would require only the Windows 2003 licenses (OS and CAL). If you had XP desktops connecting to a Linux server, then you would only require the XP licenses.
Click to expand...

+100 Nicely explained :cool:
 
Conradl said:
Any application in particular or are all of them just crap? ;). With regard to USB devices, most thin clients now support USB mapping, i.e. connecting a USB device to a local client and presenting it in the remote session.

WRT to licenses, the MS server license is not an additional cost if you already have existing pcs connecting to the server, print/sharing etc. The additional cost is for the TSCAL....
Click to expand...

Should've been more specific in my post. The maintenance of a thin client network is beyond most peoples skills and without doubt Conradl you actually know what its all about.

The USB mapping is an issue with the thin client OS. It makes zero sense to deploy LINUX in an environment where the sysadmin has no experience in Linux and is unable set it up correctly.

Licensing is one area where most people go wrong. I'm a bit rusty on the M$ Server licences to be honest and your (awesome) explination should be a sticky.
 
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