Need some info please

Another contribution:

Without background ping to 196.30.192.82 running

----196.25.1.200 PING Statistics----
50 packets transmitted, 49 packets received, 2% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 70/318/1110

----216.239.59.99 PING Statistics----
50 packets transmitted, 49 packets received, 2% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 820/1095/1200

With background ping to 196.30.192.82 running

----196.25.1.200 PING Statistics----
50 packets transmitted, 49 packets received, 2% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 80/511/1140

----216.239.59.99 PING Statistics----
50 packets transmitted, 49 packets received, 2% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 490/1117/1310

The 2% packet loss seems to be due to ping giving up on the return of the last packet.
 
Mercury said:
...The 2% packet loss seems to be due to ping giving up on the return of the last packet.
Click to expand...
<i_could_be_talking_junk_here>
Which is why I think overriding/icreasing default-TTL might help, what to set default-TTL to? - what is "acceptable latency" - perhaps just set default-TTL to 350ms or something to reduce packet loss as a result of expired-TTL aka request timed out.​
</i_could_be_talking_junk_here>
 
adjusting TTL won't have any affect. TTL is measured in "hops" not in time units. it is a misnomer that has survived from TCP/IP's early days.


a packets' TTL is a counter. every router that handles your packet looks at the TTL and, IF it's not 0, it passes it on AFTER decreasing the TTL by one. so you can imagine a case where something is screwed up somewhere and your packets run "out of steam" because their TTLs get depleted.

TTLs help the intenet get rid of packets that's "going nowhere slowly" or packets that stay on the wires because of routing errors. TTL is like a "best before counter". different OSs have different default TTL values that they stamp packets with when it leaves the system.

eg:

i can reach Internet Solutions in 7 hops. My packets will get there as long as they have a TTL above 7. and i can reach slashdot.org in 18. i'd say if a TTL of, say, 35 can't get you everywhere on the internet then something is screwed up somewhere along the route that your packet's are travelling.

chz,
kk
 
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Ok, I always thought TTL was measured in ms, if it's hop count then I have to re-evaluate my existence in this universe, bcos I'm seriously confused just thinking about it.

Just one question is TTL one-way or round-trip: On the route from HostA to HostB, TTL==HopCount==iAtoB, if --iAtoB before sending to the next intermediate host/router, when hostB replies with a new packet, what TTL is used, i.e. is it still iAtoB-- or maybe a new jBtoA that gets decremented on the return trip?
 
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TTL is not one way trip time. TTL = time-to-live (i.e. the "expiry" counter in a IP (ICMP, TCP and UDP) packet header that i described above)

i think you guys are confusing it with RTT. Round Trip Time is the timed from when your ping packet (or other) packet leaves your machine 'till when the reply arrives from the host that you pinged.

below all the ms values are rountrip times. you can see that ping utility set the default TTL to 55. incidentally all the RTTs are bigger (numerically) than the TTL - not that it matters. the most important line is the last line that gives the summary statistics on the measured RTT.
ping -c5 ftp.up.ac.za
PING ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34): icmp_seq=1 ttl=55 time=224 ms
64 bytes from ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34): icmp_seq=2 ttl=55 time=254 ms
64 bytes from ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34): icmp_seq=3 ttl=55 time=204 ms
64 bytes from ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34): icmp_seq=4 ttl=55 time=214 ms
64 bytes from ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34): icmp_seq=5 ttl=55 time=255 ms

--- ftp.up.ac.za ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 3999ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 204.583/230.646/255.031/20.569 ms​

below is a traceroute that shows that ftp.up.ac.za is only _10_ hops away. so ttl of 55 is more than adequate to get there.

traceroute ftp.up.ac.za
traceroute to ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 196.30.31.100
2 196.30.31.193
3 fe6-1.gw10.jnb6.alter.net
4 ge0-0.br1.jnb6.alter.net
5 other-side.atm6-0sub1.br1.jnb6.alter.net
6 wblv-ip-er-2-atm-12-0-0-1.telkom-ipnet.co.za
7 tenet-national-gw-telkom-ipnet.co.za
8 nat.up.uni.net.za
9 thermopylae-tenet.up.ac.za
10 ftp.up.ac.za
​

if i FORCE my ping utility to use a ridiculous TTL, say 4, the packet should only reach the fourth hop, before the router along the way complain the our packets' TTL expired.

lets see:

ping -c5 -t4 ftp.up.ac.za
PING ftp.up.ac.za (137.215.98.34) 56(84) bytes of data.
From ge0-0.br1.jnb6.alter.net (196.30.156.41) icmp_seq=1 Time to live exceeded
From ge0-0.br1.jnb6.alter.net (196.30.156.41) icmp_seq=2 Time to live exceeded
From ge0-0.br1.jnb6.alter.net (196.30.156.41) icmp_seq=3 Time to live exceeded
From ge0-0.br1.jnb6.alter.net (196.30.156.41) icmp_seq=4 Time to live exceeded
From ge0-0.br1.jnb6.alter.net (196.30.156.41) icmp_seq=5 Time to live exceeded

--- ftp.up.ac.za ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 0 received, +5 errors, 100% packet loss, time 4005ms
​

aah ha! ge0-0.br1.jnb6.alter.net, the router bitching about TTL , is indeed the fourth router in this particular path as reported by the traceroute utility.

chz,
kk
 
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round trip vs. one way

one way trip time (1WTT) is _MUCH_ more difficult to measure than RTT.

RTT vs. 1WTT would be like timing a 100m race versus a (SIMPLIFIED) 400m race.

for 1WTT the guy with the stopwatch at the finish needs to know EXACLY when the race starts as he is not at the starting line. he can't even see the starting line!

for RTT you only need one guy and he's right there where the race starts AND finishes.

that why you don't encounter 1WTT as a general network metric.

chz,
kk
 
PoiZoNouZ said:
Ok, I have done my research a bit, and I am currently using DSL384, with Telkom as my ISP. All in all it works out to R 800p/m, not too bad. The max I have used is 2.6Gb in a month, not really a power user. I play a lot on local CS:S servers, Kazaa a bit and do general browsing and e-mail. D/L speeds are 38-40k/sec my pings average 30-60. What I want to know, because I'm moving and dont want to install a phone line if I dont have to, is:
1. What are D/L and U/L speeds like?
2. What can I expect my pings to be to local servers?
3. How is it for surfing compared to ADSL?
4. Could somebody ping 196.2.128.100 , 196.2.128.99 and 196.4.79.6 for me?

Your help is appreciated, I'll be moving to Sunninghill/Paulshof, whats the signal like there?
Click to expand...

Ok, I see my original question seems to have got lost somewhere in this techno mumbo-jambo, which I don't understand. Try and answer my origonal questions please if possible, it would make my decision making a bit easier...
 
If you read a bit in this forum, you'll find the general info your looking for.
My 2cents - Get ADSL.

The rest of my mumbo-jumbo "ramblings" :- :D

The general consensus is that your online CS:S gaming will suffer badly.
Everything else you can find in this forum section - overall, it seems iBurst so far is a good option for general surfing.

If you want to keep on playing CS:S, stick with ADSL 384.

The facts about iBurst are :-

1. Expense of buying the modem (R2800, unless you signup for 24 months)
2. An activation fee has been introduced

Your initial outlay will be more than getting a line and ADSL installed in your new premises, unless you signup with a 24 month contract, which will then up your monthly cost to R700 - but you STILL need to fork out R495 for activation, more than the cost of installing an ADSL line, unless you have no fixed line in the premises your moving into.

The Activation fee, IMHO, is an own-goal for iBurst.

The total installation fee for my ADSL line including a brand new line installation, was R590.

Considering you already have ADSL, you therefore have a DSL modem/router already.

The drawback is of course ADSL installation time, which can be more than a month. iBurst you'll get within a week.
 
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some more facts:

1: No waiting 4 weeks minimum to install (same day baby!)
2: Download speeds at over 100KBps
3: There is no cap right now (yes yes, there will be, but right now there isn't)
4: It's not Telkom
5: It's not Sentech
6: It's not Telkom (so nice i had to list it twice)

So you can put that in your pipe and smoke it :P
 
I'm playing CS:S and it is fine, playing on the saix servers. That is for me though. I have seen people here not getting the same pings I get.

Don't you get cut of on home adsl package if you reach your cap?

On the 512 package you will start saving R410 a month, after 5.5 months, if you bite the bullet and buy the modem upfront, on iBurst.
 
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