Negative leave balance on resignation?

[jano]

I resigned recently, and was surprised by the negative leave balance on my final payslip. I was told this was because:

1. According to labour law, leave may not be taken during your notice period (correct) but also leave does not accrue during the notice period. Thus I had 1.67 less days than expected.
2. I had taken 3 days family responsibility leave during the 12 month leave cycle, but family responsibility leave is pro-rata, and since I had not completed that 12 month leave cycle, I was only entitled to part of the 3 days and had to pay back the rest.

As a result I have a deduction of 0.65 days worth of pay on my final payslip, when I should have been paid out for a positive leave balance.

I do not believe either point is correct, but I'm struggling to find clear guidance to refute their point of view. To me, #1 is obvious, you earn leave even in your notice period. #2 is not as clear, but if it were pro-rata, then it would carry over as well.

I hope I can resolve this amicably with my former employer and not have to refer the dispute to the CCMA.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Family responsibility leave does not carry over (at least in our HR policies). Sick leave and regular leave do however:

- http://www.labourguide.co.za/conditions-of-employment/343-family-responsibility-leave
- http://www.labourguide.co.za/conditions-of-employment/102-annual-leave

 

[web]

I resigned recently, and was surprised by the negative leave balance on my final payslip. I was told this was because:

1. According to labour law, leave may not be taken during your notice period (correct) but also leave does not accrue during the notice period. Thus I had 1.67 less days than expected.
2. I had taken 3 days family responsibility leave during the 12 month leave cycle, but family responsibility leave is pro-rata, and since I had not completed that 12 month leave cycle, I was only entitled to part of the 3 days and had to pay back the rest.

As a result I have a deduction of 0.65 days worth of pay on my final payslip, when I should have been paid out for a positive leave balance.

I do not believe either point is correct, but I'm struggling to find clear guidance to refute their point of view. To me, #1 is obvious, you earn leave even in your notice period. #2 is not as clear, but if it were pro-rata, then it would carry over as well.

I hope I can resolve this amicably with my former employer and not have to refer the dispute to the CCMA.

You are going to go to CCMA for 0.65 days leave short paid ?

 

[geezer]

You are going to go to CCMA for 0.65 days leave short paid ?

+1!

Unless it is 0.65 of a day's pay for Shameel Josub, CEO of Vodacom! His annual salary, excluding bonuses and stock options is R5 935 617, which would make it R16261 per day, and 0.65 of a day is R10570!

Otherwise, it seems like a whole lot of effort for not much.

 

[akescpt]

You are going to go to CCMA for 0.65 days leave short paid ?

yes, how much is that worth to you?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Point 1 is wrong, you get 1 days leave for every 17 days worked... even during your "notice period"

 

[geezer]

Point 1 is wrong, you get 1 days leave for every 17 days worked... even during your "notice period"

Not me! I get 1 day for every 12 days worked!

 

[ToxicBunny]

Not me! I get 1 day for every 12 days worked!

Thats nice, but the legal minimum is 1 every 17 days...

Some of us are lucky to work for companies that give us more leave than that.

 

[R13...]

Thats nice, but the legal minimum is 1 every 17 days...

Some of us are lucky to work for companies that give us more leave than that.

Some companies do give more leave days based on length of service.

 

[web]

yes, how much is that worth to you?

Not as much as the CEO of Vodacom, but also not enough to go spend a few days at CCMA, because it does take a few visits to get these things resolved.
So once you have taken the cost of your time and travelling there and back at least 3 times is it worth the effort ?

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

I'll threaten the schit out of them, but wouldn't actually follow through as there's no way it would be worth it

 

[Wyzak]

Whoop dee doo. 0.65 days leave... Shame man, how will you ever make a living? Suck it up.

 

[noxibox]

I resigned recently, and was surprised by the negative leave balance on my final payslip. I was told this was because:

1. According to labour law, leave may not be taken during your notice period (correct) but also leave does not accrue during the notice period. Thus I had 1.67 less days than expected.
2. I had taken 3 days family responsibility leave during the 12 month leave cycle, but family responsibility leave is pro-rata, and since I had not completed that 12 month leave cycle, I was only entitled to part of the 3 days and had to pay back the rest.

Leave accumulates during the notice period. Family responsibility leave works like sick leave in that it is pre-allocated, but since an employer may make it pro-rata during a partial leave cycle for sick leave they probably can also do so for family responsibility leave. This rule though would have to be disclosed to the employee in advance, so it must appear in your contract or a staff handbook and in the latter case they must have provided you with the handbook in some form.

I hope I can resolve this amicably with my former employer and not have to refer the dispute to the CCMA.

The former is your better option. The CCMA is going to take a lot of time and effort.

 

[Shi]

Family responsibility leave does not carry over (at least in our HR policies). Sick leave and regular leave do however:

- http://www.labourguide.co.za/conditions-of-employment/343-family-responsibility-leave
- http://www.labourguide.co.za/conditions-of-employment/102-annual-leave

Are you sure about sick leave? Here is states otherwise
http://hrworks.co.za/policies?pid=61&sid=185:Sick-Leave-Policy

Unused sick leave will lapse at the end of the sick leave cycle.

Sick leave has a 3 year cycle though.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Are you sure about sick leave? Here is states otherwise
http://hrworks.co.za/policies?pid=61&sid=185:Sick-Leave-Policy


Sick leave has a 3 year cycle though.

Yes - I meant that the family-resp and sick-leave reset after their respective cycles (i.e. family-resp after 1 year and sick-leave after 3 years - and both don't carry over if unused).

 

[akescpt]

Not as much as the CEO of Vodacom, but also not enough to go spend a few days at CCMA, because it does take a few visits to get these things resolved.
So once you have taken the cost of your time and travelling there and back at least 3 times is it worth the effort ?

I was preferring to OP actually.

 

[jano]

Yeah, well it's 0.65 for the family responsibility and 1.67 for the last month. After tax it is still a couple of thousand rand.

So while I'm not in the mood for the CCMA, I'm hoping that neither are they.