New 2014 polo

[PhireSide]

I know exactly what climate control is and just feel we've moved onwards and it's 2014 and with cars costing what they do this really should be standard.

It's almost as ridiculous as Toyota offering a Yaris without aircon at all a few years ago. If we loved I could understand it.

Surely the more things are optional the more expensive it is to manufacture, meaning the base cost goes up for everyone.

Especially in a country with a hot climate such as SA.

Sure enough the factories might lose a few dollars or yen or euro's on making something an optional extra but they make it back tenfold by making the consumer carry the burden. For instance, I sell you a pizza for R50, it costs me 10 minutes extra to pull off half the cheese I put on in the first place, but I charge you the equivalent of 20mins to put it back on

SA marketing in a nutshell

 

[Debeer165]

My apologies. Simply so used to having to explain everything these days that I kinda defaulted to that.

I do see your point and agree. Hopefully the situation will change with the next generation...

 

[SauRoNZA]

Especially in a country with a hot climate such as SA.

Sure enough the factories might lose a few dollars or yen or euro's on making something an optional extra but they make it back tenfold by making the consumer carry the burden. For instance, I sell you a pizza for R50, it costs me 10 minutes extra to pull off half the cheese I put on in the first place, but I charge you the equivalent of 20mins to put it back on

SA marketing in a nutshell

You know what I wouldn't even be surprised if that's the reality of it and that they all get built with climate control bargaining most people will take it and then they change it for the odd person who opts aircon.

Or do they build 90% of the car and then just do the optionals based on orders received?

 

[SauRoNZA]

My apologies. Simply so used to having to explain everything these days that I kinda defaulted to that.

I do see your point and agree. Hopefully the situation will change with the next generation...

No worries. It's just such an integral part of the car that I would imagine working on it to change it is hours lost.

Then again maybe that's why it's so expensive in some cases.

Like Cruise Control I'm sure is supported in every ECU and simply enabled/disabled as required with a change of the stalk. But then you ask yourself why not just have it there in the first place.

It's like my Corsa Lite. The wiring is there for the headlight buzzer but lacks a relay which costs no money at all. Same with fog lights, all the wiring is there just the lights aren't missing and you have to ask yourself if you went that far why not just have less model variations.

I think it must be one of the biggest reasons the Koreans can offer more fully features cars for a lower price because they simply build more of the same spec easing the pressure on the production line.

 

[PhireSide]

No worries. It's just such an integral part of the car that I would imagine working on it to change it is hours lost.

Then again maybe that's why it's so expensive in some cases.

Like Cruise Control I'm sure is supported in every ECU and simply enabled/disabled as required with a change of the stalk. But then you ask yourself why not just have it there in the first place.

It's like my Corsa Lite. The wiring is there for the headlight buzzer but lacks a relay which costs no money at all. Same with fog lights, all the wiring is there just the lights aren't missing and you have to ask yourself if you went that far why not just have less model variations.

I think it must be one of the biggest reasons the Koreans can offer more fully features cars for a lower price because they simply build more of the same spec easing the pressure on the production line.

I recall a thread I read on an i30 forum where a guy added CC to his car - it cost him ~R400 for the actual part and 2 hours of labour. Oh, and he had to add two LED's to the dashboard, but all was preprogrammed into the ECU and it was just a case of finding the correct pinouts.

It is true what you say about the Corsa's, too - I spoke to a guy who did QA for GM a few years ago and he said that the models they received from overseas had the niceties already fitted - extra sound dampening, more speakers, safety features, etc. but they were instructed to remove it to 'make it conform to SA standards' when they were sold here. Go figure.

Tis all about marketing and unfortunately vehicles are one of SA's biggest industries...and something which I never could understand was how a locally made vehicle could cost less than an imported one in certain circumstances. It boggles the mind.

</off_topic>

 

[krycor]

Why I resist buying car in SA, cast industry hasn't woken up much like other industries here. But the economy is changing fast and the next 5 yrs will be interesting

 

[Archer]

You know what I wouldn't even be surprised if that's the reality of it and that they all get built with climate control bargaining most people will take it and then they change it for the odd person who opts aircon.

Or do they build 90% of the car and then just do the optionals based on orders received?

Actually working in the field for a huge company that has options lists longer than Audi, I can explain all of this to you. But the gist of it is - options do not necessarily come at some ludicrous markup, nor does it impact the base price.

 

[Debeer165]

Actually working in the field for a huge company that has options lists longer than Audi, I can explain all of this to you. But the gist of it is - options do not necessarily come at some ludicrous markup, nor does it impact the base price.

Hmmm.... BMW?

 

[Drifter]

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/small-passenger/volkswagen/polo/new-details-2015-vw-polo-gti-43213

Volkswagen has confirmed the 2015 GTI will also be more powerful at 141kW – eclipsing the Fiesta ST’s 134kW and the 132kW output of the current Polo GTI, which is powered by a 1.4-litre ‘twin-charger’ engine.

However, that is engine is being phased out in favour of the Octavia’s newer 1.8-litre turbo-petrol engine, which is also likely to give the GTI more peak torque than the outgoing model’s 250Nm.


Uhm, Fiesta has 147kw and 290NM on overboost. GTI hasnt got overboost function.

 

[Fazda]

Uhm, Fiesta has 147kw and 290NM on overboost

Then why is it quoted as having 134 kw?

Surely it would be in the interest of the Marketing guys at Ford to quote the higher number?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Actually working in the field for a huge company that has options lists longer than Audi, I can explain all of this to you. But the gist of it is - options do not necessarily come at some ludicrous markup, nor does it impact the base price.

So you are saying it's all artificial and there's no cost to the manufacturing?

 

[Debeer165]

Volkswagen has confirmed the 2015 GTI will also be more powerful at 141kW – eclipsing the Fiesta ST’s 134kW and the 132kW output of the current Polo GTI, which is powered by a 1.4-litre ‘twin-charger’ engine.

However, that is engine is being phased out in favour of the Octavia’s newer 1.8-litre turbo-petrol engine, which is also likely to give the GTI more peak torque than the outgoing model’s 250Nm.


Uhm, Fiesta has 147kw and 290NM on overboost. GTI hasnt got overboost function.

Then why is it quoted as having 134 kw?

Surely it would be in the interest of the Marketing guys at Ford to quote the higher number?

Because it is overboost. Basically the Ford way of giving the engine a bit more oomph so the owners can say eh my china, my kar se max is 147! Maar tjom... jy kan dit 1 keer elke 10 min doen anders blaas jou radiator, dit help mos nie. Neh china sharrap hy doen 147 max!!!!

 

[Archer]

So you are saying it's all artificial and there's no cost to the manufacturing?

I'm saying that the pricing on options in not necessarily at a high mark up. Although sometimes they are - I recall an option that is enabled by adding a single relay (that is actually preinstalled from the supplier, then removed at the factory to make it base spec) which costs $60. So $60 for 20 seconds on the production line. This was at another company though.

Some places have 3 or 4 spec levels, so if you choose even one option in the higher spec you get the wiring for everything, ie you're just missing the physical components. Others make the entire vehicle one big option, so you have exactly what you ordered, nothing more nothing less. Both have pricing advantages, but I would have to write an essay to explain this all properly And the bean counters/marketers add another level of complexity to that figuring out what makes them more money.

 

[Gaz{M}]

Let's not even open up the argument that it costs VW zero dollars to make a 1.6 instead of a 1.4 engine, yet they (used to) charge us thousands more for the 1.6. Well actually it is all car manufacturers with closely spaced engine displacements. Now they are trying to pull a fast one by selling the exact same 1.2 TSI engine at two different power outputs, one costs much more (maybe there are slightly bigger components installed, but the price difference must be marginal to the factory). I'm sure the difference is smaller than they make out. Look at the BMW 118i vs the 116i. Same engine, just detuned as far as I can tell, yet it costed R18 000 difference when I last checked.

It's all about charging more for more stuff. That is why it is always wise to take the fewest options you can tolerate in a car as you won't get the money back when you sell one day. There is no way in hell it costs R25 000 for a satnav unit when you can buy a garmin/tom tom that is better for R1000. Even a high end laptop with far more functionality is half the price of a rudimentary satnav in a car.

 

[Rouxenator]

I ... just feel we've moved onwards and it's 2014 and with cars costing what they do this really should be standard.

I completely agree but VWSA loves to rides its over inflated reputation and squeeze as much as they can from local buyers. That is;
why everything is an optional extra,
why they sell old models long past they have been replaced internationally,
why they build cars with underpowered polluting EU2 engines,
why they don't include services plans on top sellers,
why they overprice their cars,
why they screw people over with defective half a million rand Scirroco Rs.

You know my biggest beef with VW is the sheer audacity of VWSA