New emissions tax

Yeah :(

1. Where is the tax going?
2. Maybe if we had a 1st world transport system where everyone felt safe travelling on public transport this would be a good idea. The next Tax will be congestion tax, again same problem.
3. What is this going to do to the brand new motor vehicle industry? Oh yes, more people will buy 2nd hand cars and jobs will be lost.

Our government is trying to be like a 1st world country, that is fine, but they need to make sure they actually deliver like a 1st world country. It is just unfortunate that the uneducated masses vote for an uneducated government with policies that promote the uneducated, unskilled workers over the educated, skilled workers.
 
They should keep it as a once-off price, not use it as an excuse to bump up petrol prices. If people want to waste money by buying a new car off the shelf instead of a 1 year old 2nd hand (inflated value goes bye bye). So be it, but keep it out of the petrol price.
 
I am pretty sure that absolutely no thought has gone into using the money for green purposes, BCO, and I am sure that your letter will come as a bit of a shock. As South African tax payers, we are not supposed to question what is being done with the money, apart from buying more Ministerial 750iL BMW's that will of course be tax exempt when bought by a Minister.

If they lump it on to new car prices, it simply adds to the argument to buy demo or used cars, and avoid it altogether. Of course the correct thing to do, as stated, would be to add it as yet another tax on fuel, but again, what is being done with all the fuel levy money that we are paying at present? I can guarantee that it's NOT being pumped back into a better road infrastructure as it should be, otherwise we wouldn't have ended up as having a pot hole hell out on non toll roads, that we do today.
 
PeterCH said:
SA is becoming to look more like Sweden. We're soon going to be taxed the same. Welcome to the First World Guys :) !!!
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You mean a below par third world at a first world cost/price. At least there is the consolation that we sponsored the black elitists (ANC) to live like International kings!
 
Emissions tax...puhleeze. :rolleyes:

This bunch are as about as concerned with the environment as they are with SA citizens. Anyone been following the story of the looming balls-up of epic proportions with toxic rising ground water from the mines in Gauteng (which at one time was maintained and under control but now, of course, isn't)? The west rand is already in serious trouble and it's said that we have 18 months to fix this problem or we're in dire straits. Let's fix problems like these first, dear government, before we go around taxing people for gas emissions that are for the most part out of our control.

Look out in future for things like sun tax (if you use solar panels), rainwater tax (for tanks collecting water from your downpipes) and swimming pool tax. The train needs its gravy!
 
I think there should be a consortium established to sue the south african government for willingly squandering tax money on executive benefits. Everyone involved should be named, shamed, and be held personally liable for participating in such a dam farce.
 
BCO said:
So does anyone actually know where the money will go?
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No specific department. It will just go to the governments tax revenue and used for health, education or whatever.

As for everyone complaining, under the circumstances (18th in the world for CO2! :eek:), this is completely acceptable is is standard practise all over the world, especially developed countries that are more environmentally aware.

Economics 101: It's called internalising an externality, the externality being pollution. Taxing such goods that give off CO2 will drive down demand for them, and increase the demand for greener cars and other green technology, overall helping the environment.

EDIT: that being said, I wish we had better public transport :(
 
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PeterCH said:
Honestly, most people who buy SUVs never go off road in them. I think a tax on engines over 2.5l-3.0l in size is a good thing, unless you need an SUV because you live on a farm and use dirt roads. Want that big truck? Well you're gonna have to pay more. Don't want to pay more, buy a smaller engine car. You can get Mercedes Benz Blue Efficiency with 2.4l engine - I think - E Class. It's will make you feel important on the road and you won't destroy the environment as much. :)
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It doesn't matter how you use that car. That is totally irrelevant here. This is supposed to be an emissions tax, not an engine size tax.

Just put the tax on the petrol. That way a person that buys a massive car but only uses it one a month doesn't get screwed on some phoney "emissions" tax.

Besides... now all of a sudden South Africa is greens conscious? AFTER the Eskom power stations plan went coal instead of nuclear or any other more green technology? Now we care because we can score some tax revenue?

Come off it. Just because you don't like SUVs on the roads doesn't make a tax right.
 
porchrat said:
It doesn't matter how you use that car. That is totally irrelevant here. This is supposed to be an emissions tax, not an engine size tax.
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I think they will tax cars on the basis of engines as they are a big factor on how much Co2 they emit.
 
boramk said:
I think they will tax cars on the basis of engines as they are a big factor on how much Co2 they emit.
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No that is just related to the amount of CO2 it is going to emit per kilometre covered. It is a combination of how how large the engine is and how often the engine is used and the nature of that operation that will determine emissions.

A scooter run every single day over many kilometres is going to emit a heck of a lot more CO2 (capital 'O' BTW because that is the chemical symbol for oxygen) over it's lifetime (probably no more than a decade on average) than an SUV fired up once a year to go around the block.

How much fuel something is using is a far more accurate measure of it's emissions than engine size. Even that system is flawed but it is much closer.
 
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You hear that disgusting slurping sound? It's the sound of the ANC raping your bank account. Welcome to South Africa, where the few pay so that the many don't have to do a day's work in their lives.
 
porchrat said:
It doesn't matter how you use that car. That is totally irrelevant here. This is supposed to be an emissions tax, not an engine size tax.
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It matters because a big heavy SUV (truck) will have larger emissions than a small engined sedan. Why haul all that metal around?

Just put the tax on the petrol. That way a person that buys a massive car but only uses it one a month doesn't get screwed on some phoney "emissions" tax.
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That screws over those people who buy economy cars but have to use them constantly instead.

Besides... now all of a sudden South Africa is greens conscious? AFTER the Eskom power stations plan went coal instead of nuclear or any other more green technology? Now we care because we can score some tax revenue?
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True, this is a tax to swell ANC coffers. We heard from many how SA has so much cash and we're underspending yet Taxes are increasing. Must be why we are such a strong economy.

Come off it. Just because you don't like SUVs on the roads doesn't make a tax right.
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A tax on SUVs is a good thing. Less of them around and more economy vehicles will drive the demand for petrol down and it will be cheaper. Environment will benefit too.

There should be an exemption for those who actually need a 4x4 eg farmers, people who live in the bush with no good roads or need to travel there for business etc.
 
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BCO said:
Thought I'd send off a quick mail to Jabulani:



Jabulani.sikhakhane ( at ) treasury.gov.za

Let's hope he doesn't swerve the question like his namesake soccer ball.
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Kudos to you. Every person here who finds this tax questionable should do the same. *off to gmail*
 
PeterCH said:
It matters because a big heavy SUV (truck) will have larger emissions than a small engined sedan. Why haul all that metal around?
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Actually Peter no. A larger car does not necessarily emit more carbon throughout it's lifetime than a smaller one. I just emits more carbon per kilometre traveled. If the SUV travels a whole lot less kilometres than the small car (and hence uses less fuel) then it can emit less.


That screws over those people who buy economy cars but have to use them constantly instead.
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Yes. It does. Why shouldn't it? After all they are emitting more carbon under those circumstances and that is what we are supposed to be taxing here.


A tax on SUVs is a good thing. Less of them around and more economy vehicles will drive the demand for petrol down and it will be cheaper. Environment will benefit too.
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The environment won't benefit from this tax because isn't actually targeting emissions it is targeting engine size. A smaller car run over more kilometres can still emit a whole lot more.

The most reliable way to tax emissions that I can think of (if that is truly your desire) is to tax the fuel. That way we actually are taxing... you know... emissions... and not just engine size.
 
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This doesn't make sense. Doesn't new vehicles emit less CO2 than older vehicles? So by taxing all the new vehicles people would rather opt for a 2nd hand vehicle and thus the problem would be worsened. If they really cared about the environment like they say, they should actually subsidize new vehicles, if you catch my drift here...
 
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