-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: Which is the most hair-raising South African mountain pass you've driven?
New PC for Graphics Design
- Thread starter OGroteKoning
- Start date
Pada
Executive Member
Do not for a moment consider a standard desktop graphics card like the HD7750.
If your wife is going to use Photoshop and other Adobe software, then she'd be better off with an NVidia workstation graphics card like the HP Quadro 2000.
If the projects that she's working on are relatively small, then she might even get away without a dedicated graphics card - where the onboard one should suffice.
You forgot to include the CPU in your post.
Also, I'd strongly suggest a SSD.
Like this past weekend I encoded a video with Adobe Premiere CS5 and it took over 3 hours, because it had to use my CPU instead of my desktop graphics cards (Nvidia GTX460 in SLi)
If your wife is going to use Photoshop and other Adobe software, then she'd be better off with an NVidia workstation graphics card like the HP Quadro 2000.
If the projects that she's working on are relatively small, then she might even get away without a dedicated graphics card - where the onboard one should suffice.
You forgot to include the CPU in your post.
Also, I'd strongly suggest a SSD.
Like this past weekend I encoded a video with Adobe Premiere CS5 and it took over 3 hours, because it had to use my CPU instead of my desktop graphics cards (Nvidia GTX460 in SLi)
OGroteKoning
Honorary Master
Do not for a moment consider a standard desktop graphics card like the HD7750.
If your wife is going to use Photoshop and other Adobe software, then she'd be better off with an NVidia workstation graphics card like the HP Quadro 2000.
If the projects that she's working on are relatively small, then she might even get away without a dedicated graphics card - where the onboard one should suffice.
You forgot to include the CPU in your post.
Also, I'd strongly suggest a SSD.
Like this past weekend I encoded a video with Adobe Premiere CS5 and it took over 3 hours, because it had to use my CPU instead of my desktop graphics cards (Nvidia GTX460 in SLi)
Is the HP A3J92AA AMD FIREPRO V4900 graphics card fine? I will look into the Quadro too.
Why SSD? It is so expensive and we thought having 2 x 1TB in mirror configuration would be sufficient.
The difference between 2 of the fastest HDDs in RAID 0 and 1 SSD is nothing short of astounding. Mostly its because the random seek times on an SSD are so much better - there is no physical head to move.
I'm hesitant to recommend an AMD FirePro card because as far as I know, AMD is not as good with their professional level drivers and relationships with vendors as Nvidia is. Put it this way - Nvidia treats the software vendors very nicely, and gives them free graphics card and support as long as they make their software run nicely with an Nvidia professional card. Which they do. AMD tries to do the same thing, but doesnt put as much effort/money into it.
I would probably rather get an Nvidia Quadro 600 if I were you. You can upgrade it later.
Pada
Executive Member
2x 1TB HDD's in mirror RAID would give you the same kind of slow write speed as 1x 1TB HDD.
The read speed could be up to almost 200% in mirror RAID, but it is still more than 2x slower than 1x SATA III SSD.
The advantage with SSD's aren't just their fast sequential read & write speeds, but their random read & writes like Ancalagon put it.
Having the HDD's in mirror RAID is a good idea to ensure that you don't accidentally lose all your data when 1 HDD fails, however the best option still remains to have an off-site backup!
It is pretty difficult to recommend a graphics card at this moment, because we really have no idea on how complex your wife's projects are. By the sound of things (that she used an old laptop), she won't really need a dedicated graphics card?!
I've mistaken the Quadro 2000 with the Quadro 600 in my previous post - so the Quadro 600 is definitely the one that I can recommend at this moment.
The read speed could be up to almost 200% in mirror RAID, but it is still more than 2x slower than 1x SATA III SSD.
The advantage with SSD's aren't just their fast sequential read & write speeds, but their random read & writes like Ancalagon put it.
Having the HDD's in mirror RAID is a good idea to ensure that you don't accidentally lose all your data when 1 HDD fails, however the best option still remains to have an off-site backup!
It is pretty difficult to recommend a graphics card at this moment, because we really have no idea on how complex your wife's projects are. By the sound of things (that she used an old laptop), she won't really need a dedicated graphics card?!
I've mistaken the Quadro 2000 with the Quadro 600 in my previous post - so the Quadro 600 is definitely the one that I can recommend at this moment.
Pada
Executive Member
+1. Well said.
Just make sure that the motherboard has at least HDMI & DVI outputs. DisplayPort would be the preferred choice if your IPS panel has that port!
OGroteKoning
Honorary Master
Thanks guys. The reason we need to get her something proper is exactly the limitations on the existing "outdated" laptop. She can not design to the full extent given these limitations. I hear what you say about the graphices card and perhaps it is wise to get it later provided the motherboard can support the screen (port wise)
Chevron
Serial breaker of phones
Rather get the Firepro.
F
Fudzy
Guest
Give some consideration to system and data protection too. UPSes, backup drives etc etc
If you have uncapped at home I'd certainly look at cloud storage.
If you have uncapped at home I'd certainly look at cloud storage.
OGroteKoning
Honorary Master
Yeah - I am looking at the Meissner 2KVa at PC International. R1500. Others also mentioned APC, but they seem much more expensive for what you get.
I already have a 50GB Box account for cloud storage, but because I don't have uncapped this will turn out pricey. In the meanwhile the Synology NAS will have to do
CataclysmZA
Executive Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,595
- Reaction score
- 1,613
I don't see any CPU. The board is okay, although you're eschewing the front USB 3.0 ports in the process along with the crappier choice of case. If you want this PC to last a while, you're going to want to have some kind of future-proofing in place. Rather go for the Gigabyte I recommended, its a much cheaper and better board overall. In fact, why aren't you following any of my pricing/recommendations? You're paying way too much for that RAM already.
As for graphics, go for the Firepro. It seems like everyone here forgets that your wife is doing graphic design, not video rendering, and that Photoshop and Illustrator use OpenCL to accelerate their software. You don't need such a powerful card either, you should stick to the cheaper AMD FirePro V3900 that I recommended you get with the LG IPS panel. Stump up the money for a 128GB SSD and save all your wife's projects and work on the RAID array, she will thank you for it later.
Do not for a moment consider a standard desktop graphics card like the HD7750.
If your wife is going to use Photoshop and other Adobe software, then she'd be better off with an NVidia workstation graphics card like the HP Quadro 2000.
If the projects that she's working on are relatively small, then she might even get away without a dedicated graphics card - where the onboard one should suffice.
Like this past weekend I encoded a video with Adobe Premiere CS5 and it took over 3 hours, because it had to use my CPU instead of my desktop graphics cards (Nvidia GTX460 in SLi)
Again, it seems like everyone equates Adobe software to Premiere or Lightroom, where CUDA is faster. She does photography and graphic design, people. Having a Quadro card won't help anything and they're slower in any case than the current FirePro cards based on GCN/VLIW5.
A regular desktop drive takes over 50 seconds to open Photoshop, dropping to just under 40 in RAID. A 128GB OCZ Vertex 3 takes around ten. That's why I recommended a SSD and a RAID array for storage because everything is so much faster on the SSD.
I think Adobe CS6 has CUDA support. All Nvidia cards have OpenCL support, and I believe their OpenCL support is more mature.
The problem is, yes, strictly speaking, Rand for Rand, AMD cards are faster....
... when they work. From everything I've read, AMD driver support is just not up there. I wouldnt want to get a "bargain" on an AMD professional card only for it to not work like it should.
CataclysmZA
Executive Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,595
- Reaction score
- 1,613
The Adobe suite has CUDA-accelerated parts in general because Nvidia basically paid to have them in there. OpenCL is an agnostic API and works on any variation of hardware that has been released in the last four years, so its not that Nvidia's support is mature (its anything but), but that OpenCL runs on anything. Support for OpenCL is software-dependant and not driver dependant, as CUDA has always been. OpenCL is an open-source project that's now being lobbied by AMD to create a new standard in accelerated applications. CUDA does exactly the same thing as OpenCL when it comes to app acceleration and even allows more control over what the GPU can do with the information given to it. The only benefits of CUDA is the freely available SDK and a bit of Nvidia's funding should the app in question catch their eye. OpenCL is just as easy to include/exploit.
If you or anyone else has played a game that sports the "The Way Its Meant To Be Played" logo by Nvidia, those game developers have received free support, extra funding and free hardware just so that Nvidia can get their games running faster on their cards with their Physx support thrown in there as well.
Wait, what? Do you have any experience in these cards or products? Have you used any of them before? Is there any good technical reason you can think of why getting the cheaper, more efficient and more powerful FirePro card, which comes with rock-solid driver support, would be a bad idea?
This thread caught my eye since I am in the graphic design industry myself. This is not expert advice from an IT point of view, but I have been around the block on the PC side. (We have both PC & Mac)
1. A Sandy Bridge i-5 2500 / Ivy Bridge 3570 processor is quite sufficient. We have 2 PC's. 1 has the i-7 980 processor, the other has an i-5 2500. I have operated both machines and there is'nt any noticeable difference while using Photoshop / Illustrator / InDesign.
2. RAM - 8GB is just enough 16GB is very comfortable. We use standard RAM, nothing fancy as none of the software is interested in the high end value of RAM for what it is worth.
3. SSD - We used an SSD for a month to determine the advantages and while we are going to upgrade to them on a permanent basis for general OS usage, they make virtually no difference when using Photoshop or Illustrator. Reason being that Photoshop (and Illustrator to a smaller degree) requires a physical scratch disk which ideally needs to be on a separate drive from the OS drive so as not to tie up or get tied up by Windows' page file usage and general OS activities. Scratch disk usage varies from a few hundred MB to a couple of GB at a time depending on the file size you are working on , amount of layers, undo levels, un-applied effects etc. This constant writing and rewriting on an SSD would be perfect! But the lifespan of an SSD would be vastly shorter than one would find acceptable. BTW, Photoshop on our i-5 takes 10-12 seconds to open the first time, thereafter, 5 seconds (just timed it). That is on a standard 7400 hard drive (CS5 version)
4. Graphics card - I would recommend the 660, although we have been quite happy with the 550ti's. They are not for high end 3-d software like 3-D Studio Max, but get the job done. The Quadro cards are only a must if she wants to do high-end rendering and animation. For basic work in Maya etc. the 660 would suffice. Photoshop is quite happy on the 550ti, so maybe the new 650ti would be an option. Photoshop uses the graphics card's OpenCL / OpenGL engine for processing to save the CPU a lot of labour.
5. Motherboard. Any decent motherboard with USB3.0 (I prefer GigaByte) will suffice. Here, my knowledge is pretty much restricted, but something like the H67MA-USB3 is pretty much sufficient. I am not in the loop about Gigabyte's Z77 boards - but have read some negative reports about the BIOS being faulty. Again... that is not for me to say.
6. Display. IPS Display Panels are vey nice to have. 23"/24" at least. You need space for all the tool bars. A second smaller display is also a nice option. You move all the toolbars onto the second displayand are left with a decent workspace. Not absolutely needed, but nice. But remember, no matter how good the display is, if she does print work, WYSIWG is never a foregone conlusion, since CMYK printing is not backlit like the display is. I have always managed to get by from CRT - LCD and now, IPC. But as rich as the colours are on the display, designers will always have to account for the fact that printed work will never appear as it is seen on screen. No amount of callibration of the screen will ever replace a good knowledge of CMYK values. You are also at the mercy of the printers - both litho and digital. Their machines will never be in sync with your display. So, while the IPS panel is 'nice' it is also not a must.
Hope that helps somewhat. If you want another less painfull alternative, get her a 21" / 27" i-mac. They are optimized to run the CS suites perfectly well. But are costly to repair once out of warranty. They are, however, industry standard and have a great OS. The only draw-back of a PC from an all round and design point of view in my experience, is the more you use Windows, the slower it gets - no matter what the hardware specs. Windows also struggles a bit with very large files (in my experience).
Almost forgot! A UPS is essential! Eskom makes sure the UPS manufacturers stay in business. There is nothing worse than losing an entire file due to a power failure. It is like they are watching you work. As soon as you hit save changes, the power can go off and the entire document can become corrupted. Nothing like having to re-do a couple of hours work from scratch!
Last edited:
Speedster
Honorary Master
+1
I know OP said he's not too keen on a Mac but it really is the industry standard for graphics. If you don't want to buy a new machine to start with you could pick up a second hand Mac mini for around R4000 to get you started and then upgrade to a higher spec'd Mac at a later stage if necessary. If she's doing serious graphics you really shouldn't be thinking anything other than Mac.
F
Fudzy
Guest
That might've been the case a couple of years ago but there isn't much difference on the graphic design side anymore.
You are right there. But from someone who has to multi-task between the 2 platforms, OSX still has a bit of an edge to it over Windows 7, but not as much as it was a few years ago. PC's have caught up to a large degree, making Macs less 'essential'.
Pada
Executive Member
This is exactly why I recommended the ASRock motherboard with 16GB of RAM, so that you can have a RAM drive to use for your "scratch disk". The RAM drive is 10x+ faster than the SSD and it won't wear out like SSD's do.
The graphics card that you have to pick will really come down to what applications you use and the complexity of the projects.
Like Wesley said the AMD FirePro ones give you better performance/Rand, but they might not work as fast for 3D Rendering - but at the very least it would be faster than the CPU only I suppose.
My suggestion would still remain that your wife just uses the onboard graphics, until she notices that the performance is poor.
OGroteKoning
Honorary Master
Sorry I'm on my phone so the post is kinda short.
@ NAG-Wesley - its an i7 processor. The prices are what I could manage saturday, but when I'm going to purchase, I will shop around. I will also re-look the case
@ subxero and Fudzy - thanks, but we won'r be getting a mac.
@ Pada - I am strongly considering not getting a graphics card but rather see how she copes with onboard.
@ all - thanks for all the advice. We will take all in consideration
@ NAG-Wesley - its an i7 processor. The prices are what I could manage saturday, but when I'm going to purchase, I will shop around. I will also re-look the case
@ subxero and Fudzy - thanks, but we won'r be getting a mac.
@ Pada - I am strongly considering not getting a graphics card but rather see how she copes with onboard.
@ all - thanks for all the advice. We will take all in consideration