Non-compliant Sonoff Products

Arthur said:
Question: Is it illegal to sell without an LOA, or is it illegal to operate (connect and attach) without an LOA? Important difference. The former places the responsibility on the seller. The latter does so on the user.
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It is illegal to sell and that falls under the NRCS. The installation and operation I am not the best person to answer the question, however my limited understanding for you as a consumer would be the CoC if you sell your property, and the highly unlikely event there was ever an insurance claim linked to an uncertified product. So adding some items to your home now the only real risk is one day when you sell you have to replace them.


No person may use components within an electrical installation unless those components comply with the standards referred to in the relevant incorporated standard referred to in subregulation (1), and proof of compliance shall be identifiable on the components or certification shall be available from the manufacturer or supplier of the materials or components in terms of the National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications Act, 2008 (Act No. 5 of 2008).
 
My only concern is insurance... don't really give a toss about government opinion, they've proven their incompetence beyond doubt.

Besides which, I think a good majority of home buyers wouldn't want the stuff in the house anyway - so mine is being installed as removeable.
 
xrapidx said:
My only concern is insurance... don't really give a toss about government opinion, they've proven their incompetence beyond doubt.

Besides which, I think a good majority of home buyers wouldn't want the stuff in the house anyway - so mine is being installed as removeable.
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As noted above all the Sonoff products come with ICASA labels - which, according to the Government Gazette of 2017, is sufficient.
 
phaktza said:
As noted above all the Sonoff products come with ICASA labels - which, according to the Government Gazette of 2017, is sufficient.
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Please can you provide a link to the document and quote the section you refer to as you keep stating this but its simply not true. Also untrue is that the IEC60950 for Type Approval is the same as the IEC60669 for LOA. You posted a PDF yesterday which was a discussion document from 2017 so hope you not referring to that, or the repealed PDF you posted from 2001. No claim you have made is yet to be corroborated, which I no longer care if you remain misinformed, but you need to stop spreading false information.
 
yogidabear said:
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Do you have any practical experience at bringing items into the country ?

In 90%+ of cases when asked for an NRCS certificate by customs officials, an ICASA certification will suffice as the documents are often the same. There are instances that a separate NRCS certificate does need to be applied for (ie PSU) - but this doesn't apply in all cases. I've been dealing with customs / ICASA / NRCS for many years and haven't had an issue. I'm not an expert in it all, but in practice it works like this.

I think the issue was not even having ICASA

On your first query of a COC - that I'm not sure of myself. But I did have an electrician install my Sonoff and he said as long as there is a physical kill switch, it should be alright for a COC. The first way the electrician wired it for me didn't comply - but he sorted it on his next visit ...
 
Dolby said:
Do you have any practical experience at bringing items into the country ?
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Had many inspections with NRCS, have even had goods destroyed. Currently in possession of hundreds of type approvals, and LOA's for the same product. If a TA would suffice it would save me hundreds of thousands of Rands in yearly levies alone, excluding TA and LOA costs. You can ask the compliance department of any mainstream distributor, or locally represented brand, and they will tell you the same.
 
yogidabear said:
Had many inspections with NRCS, have even had goods destroyed. Currently in possession of hundreds of type approvals, and LOA's for the same product. If a TA would suffice it would save me hundreds of thousands of Rands in yearly levies alone, excluding TA and LOA costs. You can ask the compliance department of any mainstream distributor, or locally represented brand, and they will tell you the same.
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What are you bringing in exactly?

If you're spending that much, I'd probably know you ... as I've been involved in distribution quite a while.

Industry is pretty small.
 
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yogidabear said:
Please can you provide a link to the document and quote the section you refer to as you keep stating this but its simply not true. Also untrue is that the IEC60950 for Type Approval is the same as the IEC60669 for LOA. You posted a PDF yesterday which was a discussion document from 2017 so hope you not referring to that, or the repealed PDF you posted from 2001. No claim you have made is yet to be corroborated, which I no longer care if you remain misinformed, but you need to stop spreading false information.
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Considering they're for different types of equipment (manual vs smart) I should imagine they're not the same. It's odd that someone with literally hundreds of LoAs wouldn't know that.

But then again maybe Will is just a part time student who lives with his mom?
 
SmartKit said:
ICASA and the NRCS do not retest anything - they merely certify that the certification that was previously certified is certified.

... And charge you for each product sold. It's effectively a hidden tax.
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Shocking.
How much do they charge per product if you don't mind sharing.
 
Type Approval R4908 and LOA R2046 per product. The TA you have to add stickers to every item showing its approved and the LOA you have to pay additional levies for every item sold.
 
yogidabear said:
Type Approval R4908 and LOA R2046 per product. The TA you have to add stickers to every item showing its approved and the LOA you have to pay additional levies for every item sold.
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You must be bringing millions and millions of SKUs into the country ?
 
Dolby said:
You must be bringing millions and millions of SKUs into the country ?
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No at all, but maybe you asking why we pay so much in levies? You dont pay levies to NRCS based on the amount of SKU you get certified, but rather the amount of that SKU you sold. So you have to complete a form stating how many units sold and you get charged Rx per 100 depending on the type of product.
 
SeRpEnT said:
Shocking.
How much do they charge per product if you don't mind sharing.
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The Sonoff TXs cost approximately R10000 to approve, R3000 for an LoA add R5 on every product sold. So far we've brought in 1000 switches and it's cost us almost R20000 on top of the usual cost-of-sales.
 
yogidabear said:
No at all, but maybe you asking why we pay so much in levies? You dont pay levies to NRCS based on the amount of SKU you get certified, but rather the amount of that SKU you sold. So you have to complete a form stating how many units sold and you get charged Rx per 100 depending on the type of product.
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Sorry I worded that wrong.

I meant to say you're selling millions (depending on product) of a product in order to pay hundreds of thousands to NRCS ?
Some of these are under 60c per device sold ?
 
semiautomatix said:
The Sonoff TXs cost approximately R10000 to approve, R3000 for an LoA add R5 on every product sold. So far we've brought in 1000 switches and it's cost us almost R20000 on top of the usual cost-of-sales.
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Great stuff and if possible please post a link to whomever retails then this thread is sorted!
 
My initiation of this thread was the frustration of not having a smart solution available and in the end we used the standard solutions, switch a relay for all lights, and Paradox for security. Have no affiliation to any brand talked about here, but hey my moms calling me for dinner so got to run :)
 
yogidabear said:
My initiation of this thread was the frustration of not having a smart solution available and in the end we used the standard solutions, switch a relay for all lights, and Paradox for security. Have no affiliation to any brand talked about here, but hey my moms calling me for dinner so got to run :)
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How is it not available?
 
yogidabear said:
My initiation of this thread was the frustration of not having a smart solution available and in the end we used the standard solutions, switch a relay for all lights, and Paradox for security. Have no affiliation to any brand talked about here, but hey my moms calling me for dinner so got to run :)
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That's a mighty convenient coincidence there, sport.
 
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