Non-compliant Sonoff Products

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yogidabear

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Have contacted a few local suppliers now trying to get copies of their LOA's for Sonoff and nobody even replies and a search of the NRCS database turns up nothing https://www.nrcs.org.za/content.asp?subID=68#1

It looks like there are 4 or even 5 local importers and yet nobody is actually allowed to sell these in South Africa. It amazes me how there can be such complete disregard for certification of an electrical product as it would have to be ripped out before any COC can be issued.

Please if anybody has knowledge to the contrary or even knows a competing brand that is legal kindly post here. Thank you!
 
yogidabear said:
Have contacted a few local suppliers now trying to get copies of their LOA's for Sonoff and nobody even replies and a search of the NRCS database turns up nothing https://www.nrcs.org.za/content.asp?subID=68#1

It looks like there are 4 or even 5 local importers and yet nobody is actually allowed to sell these in South Africa. It amazes me how there can be such complete disregard for certification of an electrical product as it would have to be ripped out before any COC can be issued.

Please if anybody has knowledge to the contrary or even knows a competing brand that is legal kindly post here. Thank you!
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@phaktza do you guys have this?
 
Smartkit pointed out on this forum that Shelly is not certified in SA however I have yet to see proof their Sonoff products are even though they seem to understand the consequences.
 
yogidabear said:
Have contacted a few local suppliers now trying to get copies of their LOA's for Sonoff and nobody even replies and a search of the NRCS database turns up nothing https://www.nrcs.org.za/content.asp?subID=68#1

It looks like there are 4 or even 5 local importers and yet nobody is actually allowed to sell these in South Africa. It amazes me how there can be such complete disregard for certification of an electrical product as it would have to be ripped out before any COC can be issued.

Please if anybody has knowledge to the contrary or even knows a competing brand that is legal kindly post here. Thank you!
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yogidabear said:
Smartkit pointed out on this forum that Shelly is not certified in SA however I have yet to see proof their Sonoff products are even though they seem to understand the consequences.
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Ok guy, I don't know who you are or what your agenda is - we've have literally spent hundreds of thousands of Rands on ICASA Type Approval for our products. The downloads are available on each and every product page.

Additionally, and you can refer to the documentation attached, the MoU between ICASA and the NRCS should provide you with enough comfort that you product is certified. With every ICASA submission you have to provide electrical compliance (EN 60950-1), they are severely scrutinized.

Furthermore, because of confusion at customs (despite insistence from the NRCS that the MoU is binding) we have applied for LoA for all our products.

Only one other company has done Type Approval in South Africa on Sonoff products, it is costly and can take in excess of 6 months to acquire. Yet here we sit with every Tom, Dick and Harry illegally importing the goods and trying to undercut our hard earned business.

Of course, I now have to deal with public shaming by people like @yogidabear - who will probably be the first to complain that our prices are much higher than China!

P.S. if you were the guy that emailed yesterday, and I replied to half an hour before this post, then you clearly have some vendetta against our company and need to own up to the fact that you would rather bad mouth companies in public that provide the full story.

EDIT: So 4 or 5 other local importers? Yet you only choose to name and shame one? Who are the other guys, why don't you air all the dirty laundry?
 

Attachments

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maumau said:
Shelly, don't believe they're compliant either :)

All things Shelly

mybroadband.co.za mybroadband.co.za
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We've been trying to get the correct documentation from Shelly for Type Approval/LoA for literally 2 years. They can't provide it, and ICASA most definitely won't approve (not sure about NRCS but I'm sure they're as strict).
 
eehellfire said:
@phaktza do you guys have this?
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You can see the reply above, there is some confusion regarding the duplication of certifications below, but most industry experts agree ICASA TA is sufficient. We're actually now covering our bases because SARS actually can't see sense.
 
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phaktza said:
Ok guy, I don't know who you are or what your agenda is - we've have literally spent hundreds of thousands of Rands on ICASA Type Approval for our products. The downloads are available on each and every product page.

Additionally, and you can refer to the documentation attached, the MoU between ICASA and the NRCS should provide you with enough comfort that you product is certified. With every ICASA submission you have to provide electrical compliance (EN 60950-1), they are severely scrutinized.

Furthermore, because of confusion at customs (despite insistence from the NRCS that the MoU is binding) we have applied for LoA for all our products.

Only one other company has done Type Approval in South Africa on Sonoff products, it is costly and can take in excess of 6 months to acquire. Yet here we sit with every Tom, Dick and Harry illegally importing the goods and trying to undercut our hard earned business.

Of course, I now have to deal with public shaming by people like @yogidabear - who will probably be the first to complain that our prices are much higher than China!

P.S. if you were the guy that emailed yesterday, and I replied to half an hour before this post, then you clearly have some vendetta against our company and need to own up to the fact that you would rather bad mouth companies in public that provide the full story.

EDIT: So 4 or 5 other local importers? Yet you only choose to name and shame one? Who are the other guys, why don't you air all the dirty laundry?
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I must admit, I am a bit of a pedantic f**ker!
If phaktza was able to supply, then I was willing to buy, else no go!
 
patrick123 said:
I must admit, I am a bit of a pedantic f**ker!
If phaktza was able to supply, then I was willing to buy, else no go!
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We may still yet have an alternative for Shelly, most likely we won't be importing however.
 
Hey guy.... perhaps dont be so aggressive in your reply. Based on your comment below from another thread, where you were quick to undermine Shelly for not being legal, I assumed you understood an LOA was necessary as why else would you quote it unless you knew what you were talking about:

phaktza said:
Your shipment could be seized and impounded.
Additionally your house can't get a CoC without ICASA/LOA - and your insurance claim might be refuted.
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Your MoU as you like to call it from 2001 was repealed in 2013 in section 19.4 http://www.gpwonline.co.za/Gazettes/Gazettes/36381_16-4_ICASA.pdf

There is no confusion and nobody at NRCS would ever tell you otherwise. If you are selling Sonoff in South Africa without an LOA you are doing so illegally. If you honestly were confused, no worries, and wasn't attacking you.
 
yogidabear said:
Hey guy.... perhaps dont be so aggressive in your reply. Based on your comment below from another thread, where you were quick to undermine Shelly for not being legal, I assumed you understood an LOA was necessary as why else would you quote it unless you knew what you were talking about:



Your MoU as you like to call it from 2001 was repealed in 2013 in section 19.4 http://www.gpwonline.co.za/Gazettes/Gazettes/36381_16-4_ICASA.pdf

There is no confusion and nobody at NRCS would ever tell you otherwise. If you are selling Sonoff in South Africa without an LOA you are doing so illegally. If you honestly were confused, no worries, and wasn't attacking you.
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Hey guy... We've had letters from NRCS, and opinions from industry experts and electricians, indicating otherwise. Did you even read thoroughly through the amendments, in the last 7 years - specifically section 5.13 of GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 31 MARCH 2017? But don't let the facts get in the way of a good trial by social media. The actual issue with the LoA is customs.

Had you been half decent you would've approached us directly for comment - either you did and failed to indicate we had responded or you didn't despite claiming you had. Either way you're a liar and a soap box preacher. Clearly getting attention is far more important than actual concern about safety and concern for people's livelihoods.

Still waiting on the names of those 4-5 importers. Either put up or shut up as this thread is clearly a personal attack - because no one else is mentioned.

Edit: as for Shelly we know it's illegal because we've spent two years trying to get it legal... guy
 
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yogidabear said:
If you are selling Sonoff in South Africa without an LOA you are doing so illegally. If you honestly were confused, no worries, and wasn't attacking you.
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Question: Is it illegal to sell without an LOA, or is it illegal to operate (connect and attach) without an LOA? Important difference. The former places the responsibility on the seller. The latter does so on the user.
 
Arthur said:
Question: Is it illegal to sell without an LOA, or is it illegal to operate (connect and attach) without an LOA? Important difference. The former places the responsibility on the seller. The latter does so on the user.
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See the products have full CE certification which means they're safe for use in China, Russia, EU, UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The third world has money making schemes whereby they have a parallel certification process that merely acknowledges that the CE certificate exists and gives you a number. In SA you might have to do this twice. Again for Namibia. Again for Zambia. Again for almost every other African country.

By no means does this mean the products are unsafe - far from it as they are endorsed by the first world.

Then you get idiots like @yogidabear complaining about how much the product costs in South Africa and that it's takes six months to retail - yet these same fools will gladly buy direct from China. Why? Because the product is safe whether South Africa deems it or not!

No, it is not illegal to sell the products without an LoA - it is illegal to import them. As a buyer you need to be wary of uncertified products and realise this may affect your CoC or insurance.

Edit: as per the Government Gazette of March 2017 there is an understanding that Type Approval is equal to an LoA in an attempt to mitigate duplication of certifications. The ICASA process is just a rigorous as NRCS with the same documents being submitted.

What is also being failed to be mentioned here is that should you only have an LoA (assuming no reciprocal agreement) on a smart device it would also be illegal as the NRCS is not responsible for certifying spectrum emissions.
 
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phaktza said:
See the products have full CE certification which means they're safe for use in China, Russia, EU, UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The third world has money making schemes whereby they have a parallel certification process that merely acknowledges that the CE certificate exists and gives you a number. In SA you might have to do this twice. Again for Namibia. Again for Zambia. Again for almost every other African country.

By no means does this mean the products are unsafe - far from it as they are endorsed by the first world.

Then you get idiots like @yogidabear complaining about how much the product costs in South Africa and that it's takes six months to retail - yet these same fools will gladly buy direct from China. Why? Because the product is safe whether South Africa deems it or not!

No, it is not illegal to sell the products without an LoA - it is illegal to import them. As a buyer you need to be wary of uncertified products and realise this may affect your CoC or insurance.
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That's all that I need to know it's safe.
 
phaktza said:
Look out for the CE stamp - and if you're really concerned then Sonoff (or any other legitimate laboratory) can supply all the test results.
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No concern, I've looked at the build quality before and I'm satisfied. I trust a genuine EC stamp before I trust anything from South Africa.
 
krieg said:
No concern, I've looked at the build quality before and I'm satisfied. I trust a genuine EC stamp before I trust anything from South Africa.
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ICASA and the NRCS do not retest anything - they merely certify that the certification that was previously certified is certified.

... And charge you for each product sold. It's effectively a hidden tax.
 
phaktza said:
ICASA and the NRCS do not retest anything - they merely certify that the certification that was previously certified is certified.

... And charge you for each product sold. It's effectively a hidden tax.
Click to expand...

Was thinking more in the line of the SABS which seems to be a joke nowadays. I saw the process in your previous post and I agree 100% with everything you said.
 
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