NTC: We’ve captured Gaddafi

i was very ignorant of Gaddafi myself except that he was a dictator. upon reading wikipedia and articles on the man i've also grown to have a lot of respect for him and his third universal theory. funny how perspectives change
 
zippy said:
Most Africans outside of Libya considered Ghadafi a hero. Nobody ever thought the Libyans would kill him.

@Killa, my condolences on your loss of yet another of your gatgabbas. Bwahaha. Viva la France
Click to expand...

Not worried about him going. He had the chance to talk and work it out, he chose not to. It's not like iraq at all so he made his bed.

It will be interesting to see how Libya progresses now.
 
killadoob said:
Yea arthur the US are angels who never murdered hundreds of thousands during their wars right?

The Vietnam Red Cross reported as many as 3 million Vietnamese people have been affected by Agent Orange, including at least 150,000 children born with birth defects.[35] According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

Agent orange is more than likely one of the most disgusting things any army has ever been involved in. Absolutely Fking sickening what they did in vietnam. Let's not get into the atrocities the US committed in the vietnam war bud. Please don't use the excuse they never knew what it could do because you cannot use chemical warfare without knowing the effects of the chemical. Bare in mind their own troops suffered as well. O yea the nuclear bomb would also be an interesting one. The most horrific weapon unleashed on innocent people. Two of the most horrific attacks on civilians will be justified of course.

Can someone explain why hitler murdering 200000 and the US doing the same is different? Does it matter based on the amount of you murder in cold blood? 200k is fine, anything over a million is bad? Hitler is a bad man for murdering millions but the US are heroes for ending a war by murdering 90,000–166,000 killed in Hiroshima
60,000–80,000 killed in Nagasaki

I am not defending hitler or any anyone else who murders in cold blood but why are the US presidents left off the lists of bad people who murdered thousands in cold blood?

Of course there are excuses for the acts the US has been involved in, nobody tries to justify the other guys but the US yea excuse after excuse.
Click to expand...

You'd actually think that'd they'd get their numbers right wouldn't you? There is a big difference between 3M and 4.8M just as there is between 150K and 500K.

A big difference is that Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito started the crap. And when it comes to dropping the nukes - as far as any nation is concerned, its soldiers are worth more than any number of the opposition.
 
Is there a really difference when you are talking about the murder of 150-500k? Is 500k worse than 150k?

So 150k is fine 500k not so fine :D

Well a suicide bomber killing only 20 people shouldn't be an issue then, it is only 20. Not even worth speaking speaking about.
 
killadoob said:
Not to mention all the nice contracts on offer as well. Will the rebels bow down i wonder?
Click to expand...
You forget that Libya was selling to the West for the past few years under Gadhafi. And South Africa. We really liked the colonel.

As for the post-Gadhafi Libya. Yes, it will probably be chaotic. The colonel made sure they have no history of democracy and real political process, so that all has to be learned from the ground up, and that's not easy. It's called tolerating political pluralism, something Gadhafi or indeed most moslem-majority states know nothing about. But that chaos cannot be blamed on the liberators (or NATO). Learning to grow up aint easy. Remember, the main justification used by dictators and tyrants is that they bring stability. However, the Libyan people have already said that they choose liberty before stability.
 
Last edited:
Arthur said:
You forget that Libya was selling to the West for the past few years under Gadhafi. And South Africa. We really liked the colonel.
Click to expand...

So did the west really like him though. He was a dictator for 4 decades. Qaddafi is an interesting person though, thanks to him the arab countries began making a fortune on oil :D. To think a barrel of oil was once 40c :eek:, granted that was in 60's. I wonder what stopped the west from removing him earlier? Nukes?
 
Saddam Hussein
Osama Bin Ladin
Muammar Gadhafi

Ex-Friends of the USA, had a very important control over the countries wealth (OIL, OIL, OIL)
All 3 have visited or have been hosted by the USA.
All 3 were killed with the help or directly by the USA (NTC fighters, New Iraqi soldiers/Court, USA Marines)

The west wants/demands a political change in another country and actually instigate and ensure that it happens, only if there is something to be financially gained from it (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya) but don't bother where there is no gain (Zimababwe, Angola, DRC).

If the NTC fighters were citizens who simply wanted political change and took to arms, how on earth did they manage to equip themselves with such heavy artillery and equipment. Did you see those anti-aircraft guns with bullets the size of baseball bats. They also had financial system in place to arrange cash for equipment, supplies, food etc for the fighters

There's more to it than just the Libyan people wanting change.

I am no supporter of any dictator be it Gadhafi, Mugabe etc but every human should respect the dead. How on earth can you parade and mutilate a body. How can we celebrate or take pleasure from death.
 
Other than Islamofascists dying to be with their virgins, and psychopaths, no-one takes pleasure in death. But the Iraqi people and the Libyan people took great pleasure in their liberation, which was marked by the death of their oppressors. When you see people dancing in the streets and celebrating when they hear that a tyrant is dead they are not celebrating death but liberation. This is not hard to understand if you have some grasp of how unpleasant oppression is. In similar manner, the celebrations on hearing of the death of OBL was not a celebration of death but a celebration that the iconic/symbolic figure who threatened America had ceased to be a threat.
 
Last edited:
Should the black farm labourers celebrate the death of ET or their liberation? They were oppressed by him.
At the point these people were killed, the masses were already "liberated".
Maybe I take death more seriously.

One man threatened AMERICA. America is a threat to itself.
All 3 were American allies at some point. Do you not see a pattern, a common factor?
 
Arthur said:
Other than Islamofascists dying to be with their virgins, and psychopaths, no-one takes pleasure in death. But the Iraqi people and the Libyan people took great pleasure in their liberation, which was marked by the death of their oppressors. When you see people dancing in the streets and celebrating when they hear that a tyrant is dead they are not celebrating death but liberation. This is not hard to understand if you have some grasp of how unpleasant oppression is. In similar manner, the celebrations on hearing of the death of OBL was not a celebration of death but a celebration that the iconic/symbolic figure who threatened America had ceased to be a threat.
Click to expand...

Nice post.
 
zubeb said:
The west wants/demands a political change in another country and actually instigate and ensure that it happens, only if there is something to be financially gained from it (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya) but don't bother where there is no gain (Zimababwe, Angola, DRC).
Click to expand...

Yeah Afghanistan and Iraq didn't cost the U.S a cent :rolleyes:

Angola is Africa's largest oil producer and the DRC....

According to last month’s edition of African Business magazine, the total mineral wealth of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) is estimated to be $24 trillion – equivalent to the GDP of Europe and the United States combined.

The DRC has the world’s largest reserves of cobalt and significant quantities of the world’s diamonds, gold and copper. This makes the DRC potentially the richest country in the world.
Click to expand...

http://www.newsaboutcongo.com/2009/03/congo-with-24-trillion-in-mineral-wealth-but-still-poor.html
 
zubeb said:
All 3 were American allies at some point. Do you not see a pattern, a common factor?
Click to expand...
No. They were allies only in the sense that they had a common enemy, much as the USA and USSR were allies in WWII against Hitler's Germany. It is a serious mitake to think "allies" in that sense means anything more the co-combatants against a mutual enemy. It emphatically does NOT mean ideological or political bedfellows. In fact, the USA reviled Stalin and the USSR. In the same way, the USA reviled OBL and Saddam even when they supported their struggle against a mutual enemy.
* OBL was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. The USA supported him in that fight, not because he was a Muslim fanatic but because he was fighting the Soviet occupation.
* Saddam had several wars with the Mad Mullahs in Iran. The USA supported him in that fight, not because he was a dictator but because Iran was a mutual enemy.
* Gadhafi was a loony buffoon and also a tyrant. When he kept to himself, it was left to his people to sort him out. But when he started financing terrorist and killing people in Western countries, the West took action. The Arab Spring inspired his own people to finally rise up - and they were rightly supported by NATO. Were the Libyan Rebels/NTC to establish another dictatorship in Libya (not unlikely), this does NOT mean the West supported them in their dictatorial aspirations. This is not hard to understand, unless you get your news though RT.
 
Last edited:
R13... said:
True, but it's a bad idea to sign them before order is brought to the country and the way forward charted.
Click to expand...

There’s not much choice (no luxury of ‘choosing’). With Gadaffi gone the NTC need money. Their administration of Libya (initially) will be shambolic. They have no practice governing and there are bound to be opposing factions with their own agendas within the NTC (the country’s also a wreck). Money will help them over the speedbumps, wherever it comes from.
 
zubeb said:
I am no supporter of any dictator be it Gadhafi, Mugabe etc but every human should respect the dead. How on earth can you parade and mutilate a body. How can we celebrate or take pleasure from death.
Click to expand...

He was a psychopathic butcher and of course his death should be celebrated. I would imagine that an unsophisticated rebel was overcome by memories of oppression and maybe the death and torture of family members. He took vengeance.

If the NTC was more sophisticated and didn’t blurt out his death, it could have been spun-out indefinitely with pompous fat cats pronouncing on rumours. “He’s escaped to Algeria. He’s in custody. His son performed a daring rescue. SA’s giving him asylum. Etc.”

This last would have been good for a few outraged threads on MyBB. It could have been deplored and supported. A good time could be had by all.
 
Palimino said:
There’s not much choice (no luxury of ‘choosing’). With Gadaffi gone the NTC need money. Their administration of Libya (initially) will be shambolic. They have no practice governing and there are bound to be opposing factions with their own agendas within the NTC (the country’s also a wreck). Money will help them over the speedbumps, wherever it comes from.
Click to expand...

The trouble is who pockets that money? Will the Libyans now find themselves with a pro west dictator who keeps all the money or that money? Egypt sat with the western paid muburak for a long time.

Only time will tell i guess.
 
killadoob said:
The trouble is who pockets that money? Will the Libyans now find themselves with a pro west dictator who keeps all the money or that money? Egypt sat with the western paid muburak for a long time.
Click to expand...

It’s a valid point, I guess. My feeling is that the Arab League and interested factions would be watching for exactly that. The limelight will be too intense for Western shena****ns although there will be lots of Arab corruption. The Libyan population would be watching closely as well. They have bled and died for infrastructure and money spent on them. Arab sleaze will also be difficult to pull off.
 
Palimino said:
It’s a valid point, I guess. My feeling is that the Arab League and interested factions would be watching for exactly that. The limelight will be too intense for Western shena****ns although there will be lots of Arab corruption. The Libyan population would be watching closely as well. They have bled and died for infrastructure and money spent on them. Arab sleaze will also be difficult to pull off.
Click to expand...

Well the arab league did F all for the egypians, they sat back and watched the country disintegrate thanx to the western paid dictator.

Not that i think the country will ever move forward but it certainly won't help when dictators are paid off. Wait they called it aid?
 
killadoob said:
Well the arab league did F all for the egypians, they sat back and watched the country disintegrate thanx to the western paid dictator.
Click to expand...

You are being too harsh. It is hardly the West’s fault if they negotiated in good faith with the only entity though to represent the Arab bloc (it’s not as if they had a wide choice). Things were urgent. Gadaffi forces were moving-in the next day. If the Arabs can’t get their own house in order and sort-out the Arab League, there is no representative body. What were they supposed to do, negotiate with Gadaffi?

Not that i think the country will ever move forward but it certainly won't help when dictators are paid off. Wait they called it aid?
Click to expand...

What were they supposed to do? There are ME practicalities to consider. Invade Egypt? That would have charmed the Arab world. Denied aid? You are suggesting massive grass-roots suffering. Refused a quid pro quo for the aid?

Nope, your case is weak and smacks of the usual Arab whining whatever the case. Like the ANC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X