I agree but it makes life much easier if the counter offer is in writing. I don't think that legal nit picking was gong to help OP today, maybe after the fact.
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Offer to purchase question
- Thread starter APoc184
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Steamy Tom
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Glad you got out of it, even if you didn't I would have just failed to get a bond and tell them to fly a kite.
I do hope though that you learnt a lesson here, I know how stressful this can be, on the next offer make sure you are happy up front.
I do hope though that you learnt a lesson here, I know how stressful this can be, on the next offer make sure you are happy up front.
Tman*
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^ this.
Agents seem to lose the little sensibility they have when they smell a commission check.
I won't be surprised if the agent phones you tomorrow to congratulate you on the new home.
Wow!
What a very interesting thread this has been.
The chances are that the estate agent is going to be pretty pissed off with losing the deal.
If she does attempt to retaliate in any mean way I would forward this thread to her and tell her that your next post on this thread would be to publish her name and the agency that she represents.
Not to derail this thread in any way but many years ago I was told: Estate agents don't sell bargains, they buy them!
What a very interesting thread this has been.
The chances are that the estate agent is going to be pretty pissed off with losing the deal.
If she does attempt to retaliate in any mean way I would forward this thread to her and tell her that your next post on this thread would be to publish her name and the agency that she represents.
Not to derail this thread in any way but many years ago I was told: Estate agents don't sell bargains, they buy them!
airborne
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Yep that comms check was almost in its claws, there's going to be gnashing of teeth when it finds out that it's all turned to dust, much wheedling and pleading will be commencing.
Scooby_Doo
Honorary Master
In what universe is someone going to sue you in their personal capacity if you don't honour an offer to purchase?
Honest question, I wouldn't pursue it if I was selling a property. It would be very costly.
Honest question, I wouldn't pursue it if I was selling a property. It would be very costly.
airborne
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Seeing it would be a direct breach of contract, all in writing, signed and co signed it wouldn't be such a difficult case to win.
And the estate agent would be fully gunning for their comms because that would be owing and relatively easily to secure in terms a Sherriff attaching the buyers belongings.
Trying to extract yourself from an accepted offer to purchase is a fools errand, rather don't go there in the first place.
Scooby_Doo
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airborne
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I have heard of a few cases, normally they don't go the full distance in terms of appearing in court although some do, an out of court settlement is normally reached.
The defaulting buyer has to take it on the chin in a rather serious fashion.
The seller and agent know they have the buyer with his nuts squarely in the jaws of the vice. Even if they decide to not take it further it's just a miserable position to be in for the buyer, having that hanging over you.
An offer to purchase is a binding legal document, it has serious consequences or else what would the point be?
Scooby_Doo
Honorary Master
Maybe, doubt its common. Most of these contracts are practically unenforceable.
airborne
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Lol, well considering how seriously everyone including the op takes them the exact opposite is the case.
A contract to purchase is pretty basic legal law, it's unambiguous so there's not much wiggle room. If there's no mitigating circumstances, ie the seller or agent were dishonest about aspects of the property or deal then it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that you will lose a court case as a defaulting buyer. The only thing in question will be the value of the damages owing.
Whew, what a read, this thread! Jittery like a roller-coaster!
Question: It seems from the above that mail is accepted as being "in writing" but WhatsApp is not. Is this the case, and if so, how/where is that defined? Ought this to be specified in the OTP?
Question: It seems from the above that mail is accepted as being "in writing" but WhatsApp is not. Is this the case, and if so, how/where is that defined? Ought this to be specified in the OTP?
Speedster
Honorary Master
Mail in South Africa is sadly a no go. The post office is likely to lose the OTP or, if the do deliver, take about 6 weeks to do so.
Surely the above posters were referring to "e-mail" when they wrote "mail"? That seemed to be what they were regarding as being "in writing". Presumably they're not using couriers to deliver paper lettters.
Since "e-mail" and Whatsapp are both electronic, I was asking why one form of electronic is seen as being "in writing" but the other not. Or did I misunderstand that?
Since "e-mail" and Whatsapp are both electronic, I was asking why one form of electronic is seen as being "in writing" but the other not. Or did I misunderstand that?
Speedster
Honorary Master
Actually, I don't think any poster wrote "mail" in this thread previously. I'm not a legal expert, but my guess would be an equivalent message over either Whatsapp or email would have the same legal status. Emails, in general, do tend to be more thorough with Whatsapp generally just a few words or short sentences.
APoc184
Honorary Master
Yeah guys...
Learned a very valuable lesson indeed.
And hope this thread will in some way help other people to not make the same mistakes as we did. And spot the red flags before they put pen to paper. Of course we can clearly see them all after the fact now.
Learned a very valuable lesson indeed.
And hope this thread will in some way help other people to not make the same mistakes as we did. And spot the red flags before they put pen to paper. Of course we can clearly see them all after the fact now.
APoc184
Honorary Master
Going to be honest. Had a restless night. Still worried that she will pull some sort of stunt to try and make the deal valid.
By the way. Still no documents received or anything. No confirmation from agent that she received our emails about withdrawing the lapsed offer.
Kinda worried how her and the seller's messages keep referring to them accepting OUR offer of R15k more. Although we know our original signed offer was for less and nowhere did we sign next to the amended amount or even confirmed verbally/whatsapp/email that we accept or offer the higher amount.
Yes we did make it sound like we will probably accept the higher offer if they make it... But nothing was made from them or her in writing or verbally/WhatsApp/email.
Just a last second congratulations voicenote saying THEY accepted OUR offer?
And thanks to @bokka1 and others we officially withdrew that original offer when it lapsed after 18h00. It is also the only signed written document in this whole debacle.
By the way. Still no documents received or anything. No confirmation from agent that she received our emails about withdrawing the lapsed offer.
Kinda worried how her and the seller's messages keep referring to them accepting OUR offer of R15k more. Although we know our original signed offer was for less and nowhere did we sign next to the amended amount or even confirmed verbally/whatsapp/email that we accept or offer the higher amount.
Yes we did make it sound like we will probably accept the higher offer if they make it... But nothing was made from them or her in writing or verbally/WhatsApp/email.
Just a last second congratulations voicenote saying THEY accepted OUR offer?
And thanks to @bokka1 and others we officially withdrew that original offer when it lapsed after 18h00. It is also the only signed written document in this whole debacle.
Steamy Tom
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I wouldn't worry, I would probably just ignore the beech from this point.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Don't worry about how she tries to spin this... Shut the agent down, and when she gets pushy, push back harder and be very blunt that no official offer was made at 15k more and your original signed offer was not officially accepted via a signed document prior to the cutoff date and if she pursues this any further she and the principal agent for her agency can deal with your lawyer and the EAAB.
APoc184
Honorary Master
Wife saw something similar on Legal Talk Facebook page 01h00 this morning when we couldn't sleep.
Similar situation with only an original signed OTP buy buyer and then all the counter offers over whatsapp.
Then the seller pulled out last minute saying they are rather going to sell the property to family.
The prospective buyer asked if they have any claim or right to the deal.
Most people replied and said they will have to move on and two conveyance attorneys mentioned the Alienation of land act in their comments about all sales of immovable property must be in writing.
Similar situation with only an original signed OTP buy buyer and then all the counter offers over whatsapp.
Then the seller pulled out last minute saying they are rather going to sell the property to family.
The prospective buyer asked if they have any claim or right to the deal.
Most people replied and said they will have to move on and two conveyance attorneys mentioned the Alienation of land act in their comments about all sales of immovable property must be in writing.
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