Offer to purchase question

[bokka1]

The wording is important. Hopefully occupational rent is specified however if it states "occupational rent by the party enjoying current occupation" then the tenant owes occupational rent and since the tenant isn't party to the OTP good luck in enforcing it. You may wish to consult your legal eagles.

If there is no occupational rent amount and the parties can't agree on an amount at a later stage then there is a possibility that the OTP can be declared null and void because there were no consensus between the parties about a material aspect of the contract.

With regard to tenants with an existing lease then "huur gaat voor koop." If they are on a month to month basis then a calendar month notice will be sufficient.

 

[Toxxyc]

Their lease expired a long time ago, and they were given notice. They just don't want to move. Once registration goes through, they are there illegally and I will act accordingly.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

If there is no occupational rent amount and the parties can't agree on an amount at a later stage then there is a possibility that the OTP can be declared null and void because there were no consensus between the parties about a material aspect of the contract.

With regard to tenants with an existing lease then "huur gaat voor koop." If they are on a month to month basis then a calendar month notice will be sufficient.

Toxyc says the lease has expired. But they still do not have to move under the State Of Disaster, as unless the Court is certain they will have a place to move to, it won't grant an eviction order. Toxyc can ask them nicely to move, but if they won't then there's nothing he can do. Even if he has a clause in the OTP that states they must leave, he's clause will then in contravention of the State of Disaster Management act. That will make his entire OTP illegal.

 

[Sinbad]

Their lease expired a long time ago, and they were given notice. They just don't want to move. Once registration goes through, they are there illegally and I will act accordingly.

They're already there illegally. It's going to cost you a fortune to get them out...

 

[TheBadMadMan]

IMO:
Haal hom uit voor hy spuit.
Pull out man.

 

[Gozado]

Toxyc says the lease has expired. But they still do not have to move under the State Of Disaster, as unless the Court is certain they will have a place to move to, it won't grant an eviction order. Toxyc can ask them nicely to move, but if they won't then there's nothing he can do. Even if he has a clause in the OTP that states they must leave, he's clause will then in contravention of the State of Disaster Management act. That will make his entire OTP illegal.

Yes, if they don't have a place to move to, this is, indeed, the owner's problem. The new owner takes on the problems of the previous owner.

However, it seems rather a large leap to say that a clause in an OTP, which is a usual and normal kind of clause, could invalidate an OTP just because of the State of Disaster Management Act. I would have thought that that Act freezes the way things ordinarily would have worked, just until the State of Disaster is over, (= makes the haul all the longer!) but does not, in the meantime, invalidate contracts.

 

[Toxxyc]

I've spoken to the tenant and the agent, and the tenant said she "doesn't want to fight, she'll move if she has to", but I'm leaving that up to the agent/executor to sort out. That's not my fight. Not now, anyway.

She said she has somewhere to go, she just has to build a place there first. You guys don't understand how weird this is. She's trying to get people to sponsor bricks so she can build a shell on someone's yard to live in.

 

[quovadis]

Their lease expired a long time ago, and they were given notice. They just don't want to move. Once registration goes through, they are there illegally and I will act accordingly.

Have you laid eyes on the original version of the contract and understood the terms under which the lease can be cancelled after it goes month-to-month? Has the cancellation notice been delivered in terms of that contract? What are the terms if the tenant wishes to dispute - is there a mandatory process to be followed in the event of a dispute?

I'm only pointing out the issues you may have to overcome and I'm not even talking about the sub-letters who may or may not be there legally and in fact may have been squatting there for the past 5 years for all you know. Is there even a sub-let clause in the contract?

Eviction is a moer of a process and costs a fortune. If the OTP is not explicitly covering these things you will be on your own.

 

[Gozado]

That is, indeed, super-weird. The property has a tenant in it, and she has a seemingly undefined number of sub-tenants (to whom she has responsibilities, just as the owner has responsibilities to her). She says she has somewhere to go, but she has no shelter there, and no money to buy bricks...

 

[quovadis]

I've spoken to the tenant and the agent, and the tenant said she "doesn't want to fight, she'll move if she has to", but I'm leaving that up to the agent/executor to sort out. That's not my fight. Not now, anyway.

She said she has somewhere to go, she just has to build a place there first. You guys don't understand how weird this is. She's trying to get people to sponsor bricks so she can build a shell on someone's yard to live in.

There is no duty on the executor of the estate to take any responsibility in evicting the existing tenant / sub-letters unless the OTP specifically requires the executor to do so and provides for specific relief should the executor not do so. The executor's only legal requirement is to disclose the current situation and despite advising notice has been given has no duty to ensure its effected or even as per agreement.

 

[Toxxyc]

Righto, so what gets me is that the agent said they have been given notice, and they will move out. She said we don't "have to worry about it". But now I'm worried.

But I'm serious. If transfer is done, I'm starting renovations. Breaking down gates and doors, building a wall up front, whacking down walls, lifting tiles and carpets, removing the kitchen and bathroom, etc. I don't give a **** where they go then,

 

[Toxxyc]

The executor's only legal requirement is to disclose the current situation.

But he didn't. I was told "they'll be out". That's it.

 

[quovadis]

Righto, so what gets me is that the agent said they have been given notice, and they will move out. She said we don't "have to worry about it". But now I'm worried.

But I'm serious. If transfer is done, I'm starting renovations. Breaking down gates and doors, building a wall up front, whacking down walls, lifting tiles and carpets, removing the kitchen and bathroom, etc. I don't give a **** where they go then,

You should be very worried. I would discuss this with an attorney who specifically does eviction work. You cannot proceed with anything other than basic maintenance of the property - if you do you will end up in a world of trouble including providing suitable alternative accommodation while the renovations are carried out, moving costs, restitution etc etc etc etc etc. All the tenant needs is an over-zealous legal aid student...

But he didn't. I was told "they'll be out". That's it.

And he may truly have the belief that they will "be out" - that doesn't make it so neither does he have any liability if they don't unless the OTP covers this. The OTP should cover ALL eventualities and ALL expectations and remedies should such not be fulfilled. Does the OTP specify any terms which specify a vacant occupation guarantee?

 

[Toxxyc]

Well, as the property stands now, I'm 99% sure it won't even be legal to live there. It's in such a mess. The OTP doesn't guarantee vacant occupation. I'm in talks with the agent now in order to see if I can add a clause to the OTP to ensure they're out when the time comes.

 

[Sinbad]

Well, as the property stands now, I'm 99% sure it won't even be legal to live there. It's in such a mess. The OTP doesn't guarantee vacant occupation. I'm in talks with the agent now in order to see if I can add a clause to the OTP to ensure they're out when the time comes.

dude walk away...

 

[quovadis]

Well, as the property stands now, I'm 99% sure it won't even be legal to live there. It's in such a mess. The OTP doesn't guarantee vacant occupation. I'm in talks with the agent now in order to see if I can add a clause to the OTP to ensure they're out when the time comes.

Has the OTP been signed? If it has it's binding as is. If it is and transfer occurs you will have a tenant which is disputing any receipt of notice, any commitment to vacate and sub-letters who probably will feel the same and your only resort is an eviction process based on an existing rental agreement which is enforceable within the terms of the contract.

 

[quovadis]

dude walk away...

It's probably the best advice or at least ensure the property is vacant prior to signing an OTP especially if there is no guarantee provided.

 

[Toxxyc]

Oh ****, the agent just let me know that an offer came in higher than ours on the property. This might just be my chance to get out of it without worrying about anything further!

 

[TheBadMadMan]

Oh ****, the agent just let me know that an offer came in higher than ours on the property. This might just be my chance to get out of it without worrying about anything further!

IMO I would retract the offer immediately. In writing to the agent.

 

[quovadis]

Oh ****, the agent just let me know that an offer came in higher than ours on the property. This might just be my chance to get out of it without worrying about anything further!

You need the seller to present a counter offer, reject your offer or for your offer to expire (assuming you specified an expiry). Edit: You might want to be sly and advise the agent you're prepared to consider a counter offer if they counter you in writing. Then decline to counter and retract.