Official June 2014 Tests Thread

[Noob-Noob]

Yeah they need to get rid of coenie. Lawrence does a pretty good job, even Beast

You referring to Lawrence Sephaka?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

You referring to Lawrence Sephaka?

Probably meant Lourens Adriaanse, whose also in the squad.

 

[Sm00thSm0k3]

Some people just complain because it is possible.

Yep. There's just no pleasing some people.

I'd take a flurry of Springbok tries over a tight, heavily contested game any day of the week.

I think most folks expected us to beat Scotland convincingly so can you imagine the outrage and red flags that would have gone up if it ended up being a close game.

Really happy to see our youngsters step up to the plate.

Lood was amazing.
Pollard did really well and if you didn't know any better you would think it was his 20th cap.
Jan Serfontein was good as well.

Still worried about our scrum.

Agreed. Not only is it refreshing seeing new faces but it was fantastic seeing them perform so well.

Yes, the scrum is worrisome. Something needs to be done here, but what?

No. 9 is an issue though. Sorry but Hougaard (glamour boy) is k@k! Sure, he's probably better than Pienaar but there was a definite change of pace when he replaced Du Preez. His timing, passing and game-reading skills are nowhere near that of the veteran.

 

[Vercogen]

Reading the last couple of post I don't think JP's name was mentioned once, how did he got man of the match!!!!

 

[sand_man]

Solid enough performance from the Boks but they will be judged on their performances against NZ and Australia!! Let's be honest, the Scots are poor!! Their most recent results include a 19-17 against Canada, 21-17 against Argentina and 24-6 against the USA. Squeaked home against Italy in the 6 nations, 21-20, lost 20-0 to England, 28-6 to Ireland and 19-17 to France.

 

[sand_man]

Reading the last couple of post I don't think JP's name was mentioned once, how did he got man of the match!!!!

There were many potential winners of MoM award.

I thought anyone of Schalk, Pollard or Loodt could have won it...

 

[Sm00thSm0k3]

There were many potential winners of MoM award.

Agreed but considering ol' Fikile himself was present at the game (Minister of Sport) there might have been some political reasoning behind this one.

 

[sand_man]

Agreed but considering ol' Fikile himself was present at the game (Minister of Sport) there might have been some political reasoning behind this one.

Hadn't occurred to me but now that you mention it, anything is possible...

 

[wizardofid]

You referring to Lawrence Sephaka?

Yip the one and only Better than the props we have now, in the current state there is no contest in scrums...

No. 9 is an issue though. Sorry but Hougaard (glamour boy) is k@k! Sure, he's probably better than Pienaar but there was a definite change of pace when he replaced Du Preez. His timing, passing and game-reading skills are nowhere near that of the veteran.

Detest Ruan narrow minded approach and no depth, same applies to JP, can learn a thing or two from Bryan Habana, would rather replace JP with Zane, Zane can at least kick, none of the outside centers where any where near the kicked balls, not that a lot of kicking went on in the last game, most important aspect is to put pressure on the apposing team.

The full back Willie le Roux is doing a really good job, pity there isn't even a remotely a guy in this selected team to replace him in any event.

You could go on and on about player selection, but most often players on the teams are not there based on merit, and most often they don't play well internationally as they are too used to Southern hemisphere rugby.

Scotland in general dominated break down points and aggressive play in rugs, thought they payed dearly for it, it is the type of aggression and tactics they need to employ with NZ, Aus...

 

[Spizz]

Solid enough performance from the Boks but they will be judged on their performances against NZ and Australia!! Let's be honest, the Scots are poor!! Their most recent results include a 19-17 against Canada, 21-17 against Argentina and 24-6 against the USA. Squeaked home against Italy in the 6 nations, 21-20, lost 20-0 to England, 28-6 to Ireland and 19-17 to France.

I might be biased, but we are not as bad as all that and are going through a transformation period (again). This was not the normal kind of Scotland game plan and it's clear the new coach wants to keep the ball alive and throw it about a bit. We#ll see how that goes, but however, I think the Scots made the Boks work a bit and take nothing for granted. It was pretty tough going out there at times. Sure, not for the whole 80 minutes but I was quite happy how they stuck in and kept the Boks honest.

Great performance from the Boks imho.

 

[MickeyD]

Thanks to Mike Holmes

 

[Devill]

Reading the last couple of post I don't think JP's name was mentioned once, how did he got man of the match!!!!

Like so:

Agreed but considering ol' Fikile himself was present at the game (Minister of Sport) there might have been some political reasoning behind this one.

Solid enough performance from the Boks but they will be judged on their performances against NZ and Australia!! Let's be honest, the Scots are poor!! Their most recent results include a 19-17 against Canada, 21-17 against Argentina and 24-6 against the USA. Squeaked home against Italy in the 6 nations, 21-20, lost 20-0 to England, 28-6 to Ireland and 19-17 to France.

Well if you think that the English ran the All Blacks VERY close twice in NZ.... and the y could only beat scotland 20-0... well that does give me some hope.

I think if we can get a better backup scrumhalf and a real outside center, then we only need to have stability in the scrum and we can be world beaters.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Like so:




Well if you think that the English ran the All Blacks VERY close twice in NZ.... and the y could only beat scotland 20-0... well that does give me some hope.

I think if we can get a better backup scrumhalf and a real outside center, then we only need to have stability in the scrum and we can be world beaters.

England (and France) always play better against NZ than against anyone else.

 

[sand_man]

Well if you think that the English ran the All Blacks VERY close twice in NZ.... and the y could only beat scotland 20-0... well that does give me some hope.

I think if we can get a better backup scrumhalf and a real outside center, then we only need to have stability in the scrum and we can be world beaters.

Yeah, it's an interesting time for SA rugby!!

Hemorrhaging players to European and Japanese leagues, hemorrhaging players to injury yet still producing at age group level so it's a resource that continues to replenish itself.

Crazy to think Loodts is possibly 4th or 5th choice lock with Eben injured, Juandre, Bekker playing abroad, Hargreaves playing abroad and not considered.

Crazy to think 2 seasons ago Elton Jantjies ran on at FNB in his test debut against NZ! 2 seasons ago we were in trouble at 10, now we have MS, Johan Goosen, Martniz Boshoff (really rate this guy) and Pollard.

Interesting times ahead. World championship is the true test of this teams metal, going to be challenging!!

EDIT: It pains me no end that Kockett is not that backup 9!!!

Outside centre is a challenge. Paul Jordaan has huge potential but he's not big enough for test rugby IMHO, same applies to Juan DeJong. Both are skillful enough but about 7kg-10kg under weight.

 

[MickeyD]

Why Rugby has backs!

It is largely unknown to players and followers of the modern game, that rugby started off purely as a contest for forwards in opposition line outs, scrums, rucks and mauls.

This pitted 8 men of wonderful physique, supreme fitness, superior intelligence in packs against one another. In those early days the winner was the pack that won the most set pieces.

The fall of the game began when backs were introduced.

This occurred because a major problem was where to locate the next scrum or lineout. Selecting positions on the ground for these had become a constant source of friction and even violence.

The problem was solved by using forward rejects, i.e. men of small stature, and limited intelligence to run aimlessly around within the field of play.

Following a set piece, the ball would be thrown to one of them, who would establish the next location either by dropping it, or throwing it to another reject for him to drop.

Very occasionally a third reject would receive the ball before it would be dropped, and crowds would wildly cheer on these rare occasions.

Initially these additional players were entirely disorganised, but with the passing of time they adopted set positions.

For instance, take the scrum-half. He was usually the smallest, and least intelligent of the backs, whose job was simply to accept the ball from a forward and to pass it on to one of the other rejects who would drop it, thus providing a new location for the forwards to compete.

The fly-half plays next to the scrum half, and his role is essentially the same except that when pressured, he usually panics and kicks the ball. Normally he is somewhat taller and slightly better built than the scrum half.

The centres were opportunists who had no expertise but wanted to share in the glamour associated with forward packs. After repeated begging to the forwards for a role in the game they would be told to get out in the middle of the field and wait for instructions. Thus when they were asked where they played, they would reply "in the centre". And they remain to this day, parasites and scroungers who mostly work as lawyers or used car dealers.

You may ask, why wingers? The answer is simple. Because these were players who had little ability and were the lowest in the back line pecking order, they were placed as far away as possible. Consequently , and because the inside backs were so diligent in their assigned role of dropping the ball whenever they received it, the main contribution to the game made by the winger was not to get involved. Their instructions were to run away as quickly as possible whenever trouble appeared, And to avoid tackles at all costs. The fact that the game was organised so that wingers didn't get to touch the ball led to an incessant flow of complaints
from them and eventually the apt description 'Whingers' was applied. Even though the 'h' has dropped off over the years, the whinging itself has not.

Lastly, the full back. This was the position given to the worst handler, the person least able to catch the ball or pass the ball, someone who was always in the way. The name arose because the forwards would understandably become very angry by the poor play by the full back, and the forwards would be often heard to shout after one of his mistakes 'send the fool back', this became corrupted to full back.

Let's return to the glory days of a contest between 2 packs of 8 men of superior physique, supreme fitness superior intelligence.

The rest can go where ever they will be happier………… playing soccer?

 

[Devill]

England (and France) always play better against NZ than against anyone else.

Mmmm maybe later when I have some time I will have a look at the historical scores etc etc for Eng vs NZ and Fr vs NZ.

For some reason I think your statement is an opinion and not a fact based in numbers

Yeah, it's an interesting time for SA rugby!!

Hemorrhaging players to European and Japanese leagues, hemorrhaging players to injury yet still producing at age group level so it's a resource that continues to replenish itself.

Crazy to think Loodts is possibly 4th or 5th choice lock with Eben injured, Juandre, Bekker playing abroad, Hargreaves playing abroad and not considered.

Crazy to think 2 seasons ago Elton Jantjies ran on at FNB in his test debut against NZ! 2 seasons ago we were in trouble at 10, now we have MS, Johan Goosen, Martniz Boshoff (really rate this guy) and Pollard.

Interesting times ahead. World championship is the true test of this teams metal, going to be challenging!!

+10.

I have been very impressed with the caliber of players coming through for SA. I think some of the injuries to 1st and 2md choice players have been a blessing in disguise, as this gave game time to the younger guys on the fringes of the team and it grew our depth.

All and all we now need to see how we measure up against the ABs and Aussies.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Mmmm maybe later when I have some time I will have a look at the historical scores etc etc for Eng vs NZ and Fr vs NZ.

For some reason I think your statement is an opinion and not a fact based in numbers

Quite a Sherlock, aren't you!

It's just the impression I've got over the last 5 or so years. France are usually NZ's bogey team at World Cups - when they were robbed in France, and the 2011 final. What a beast of a game they had there. And England has been the only team to beat the ABs since the World Cup.

NZ has a pretty badass record against both of them (77% and 79% win rate) but the games are often very intense.

 

[sand_man]

All and all we now need to see how we measure up against the ABs and Aussies.

And that's my concern. A lot harder for the greenhorns to shine against opposition of the quality of NZ and OZ but let's wait and see/hope and pray...

 

[Devill]

Quite a Sherlock, aren't you!

It's just the impression I've got over the last 5 or so years. France are usually NZ's bogey team at World Cups - when they were robbed in France, and the 2011 final. What a beast of a game they had there. And England has been the only team to beat the ABs since the World Cup.

NZ has a pretty badass record against both of them (77% and 79% win rate) but the games are often very intense.

Yeah. IIRC SA has the best of all the opposition teams record vs NZ.

I do not think we are 100% ready for the ABs just yet but if you look at the facts:
1) We were playing with a brand new center pairing - a 21 y/o and a wing made center.
2) We played without four of the top locks.
3) We have no good back up scrumhalf
4) We did not dominate the scrums, in fact we were give a bit of a lesson in scrummaging.
5) We had more than a couple of players get their frst cap in the last three test
we should do fine.

It is not like we beat the ABs 70% of the time and the Aussies 90% of the time. Sometimes I think people want us to regularly beat the Aussies and ABs (50%+ of the time) that their common sense goes out the door.

And that's my concern. A lot harder for the greenhorns to shine against opposition of the quality of NZ and OZ but let's wait and see/hope and pray...

For sure and also playing away from home will bring a greater challenge. I am however optimistic. If we can sort our Scrum out, have a go forward flyhalf we just might see a bok team in full rampage.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Yeah. IIRC SA has the best of all the opposition teams record vs NZ.

Yep. At 59% at the moment. But that's a little misleading as the figure gets significantly worse after the game went professional.

Before that we had a record of 21 victories out of 39 tests, so 53%. In the professional era that dropped to 14 out of 48 tests, so 29%.

I do not think we are 100% ready for the ABs just yet but if you look at the facts:
1) We were playing with a brand new center pairing - a 21 y/o and a wing made center.
2) We played without four of the top locks.
3) We have no good back up scrumhalf
4) We did not dominate the scrums, in fact we were give a bit of a lesson in scrummaging.
5) We had more than a couple of players get their frst cap in the last three test
we should do fine.

1) Which looks to be broken up again with JdV coming back...
2) Yip, we have crazy depths in that department. Very fortunate.
3) Sucks, doesn't it? Especially with Fourie du Preez possibly being out with an ankle. NZ always use to be a bit light in that department, but Aaron Smith is top notch and has TJ Perenara backing him up.
4) Yeah, this is concerning given the experience and power we have in that department. Really not sure where the weakness lies at the moment. Our set pieces are one of our strong points, too.
5) I'm very glad Heyneke did that. Much more risky than he usually allows. But we saw some real quality shine through.

It is not like we beat the ABs 70% of the time and the Aussies 90% of the time. Sometimes I think people want us to regularly beat the Aussies and ABs (50%+ of the time) that their common sense goes out the door.

Hehe, I think SA fans (especially Springboks fans) have some of the highest standards in world sport.