Official North Korean Thread

[killadoob]

So should sanctions never be used to put pressure on regimes for doing things that threaten other countries, or for committing crimes against its own citizens?

The sanctions against the Apartheid regime played a big role in ending apartheid.

How long were we sanctioned? yea wow sanctions really make a huge difference. It wasn't international pressure or the ANC on the brink of waging a civil war that changed anything, it was the decade of sanctions. Sanctions are the way, it may take 3-4 decades but eventually they work

How long have iran been sanctioned for? 4 decades? Iraq, libya, NK etc. Did it work? Santions only fuel hatred and they may cause a country to want nuclear weapons to protect themselves from an invasion by countries who have hundreds of nukes. Libya would not have been invaded if qaddafi kept up his nuclear activity.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

How long were we sanctioned? yea wow sanctions really make a huge difference. It wasn't international pressure or the ANC on the brink of waging a civil war that changed anything, it was the decade of sanctions. Sanctions are the way, it may take 3-4 decades but eventually they work

How long have iran been sanctioned for? 4 decades? Iraq, libya, NK etc. Did it work? Santions only fuel hatred and they may cause a country to want nuclear weapons to protect themselves from an invasion by countries who hundreds of nukes. Libya would not have been invaded if qaddafi kept up his nuclear activity.

International pressure through sanctions. The country was bankrupt, and eventually they realised the jig was up. The ANC didn't really do much to be honest, they were just there at the end.

You still haven't answered the question. Should sanctions never be used? And how else do you think the world should deal with people who pose a threat to their neighbours, or commit crimes against their own people? Should they be left completely alone?

 

[Celine]

golly gee - keep the fighting between the countries who have the nuclear weaponry. we need to keep the peace for now.

 

[killadoob]

International pressure through sanctions. The country was bankrupt, and eventually they realised the jig was up. The ANC didn't really do much to be honest, they were just there at the end.

You still haven't answered the question. Should sanctions never be used? And how else do you think the world should deal with people who pose a threat to their neighbours, or commit crimes against their own people? Should they be left completely alone?

Well let me ask you a question before i answer, do you believe the sanctions are working in iran? Did the sanctions work in iraq? Did they work in libya?

Give me some example of places where sanctions have worked. It wasn't sanctions in SA that worked. Watch the documentary i don't know it's name but we were on the brink of a civil war and luckily we had a leader who had foresight to see millions of black people taking up arms would do more harm than allowing them their freedom. The anc were ready to go to war and i can assure you the international community would not have backed our government.

What worked was mandela being put in jail and the current leader at the time was not a stubborn idiot. Sanctions played no role in my opinion. It got to a point where it was either civil war or a peaceful solution had to be found. The peaceful solution won the day. Now apart from your thoughts on SA, show me another country where sanctions have worked?

Going to gym now but when i get back i will google a list of countries that are sanctioned, maybe you can provide me a list of at least 5 examples where sanctions have worked. I will give you SA even though i don't believe sanctions changed much.

Your list:

1. SA

My list of the top of my head and i may be wrong with some of them.

1. Iraq
2. Libya
3. iran
4. venezuela
5. cuba
6. nk
7. oooooooooo i forgot Zimbabwe

you can correct me if i have listed something wrong.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

/snipped for brevity

I dunno, it's a difficult question. It's an alternative to war, and can work with regimes that aren't driven by mad dictators and ideologues.

Successes as a result of sanctions don't necessarily have to be large-scale, like the toppling of a regime. There can be small concessions that steer things in the right direction. Diplomacy works like that. You give me this, I give you that. Stop imprisoning journalists and we'll re-open our embassy. Move troops out of a disputed area and we'll help facilitate trade. That kind of thing.

That's what's happening in Zimbabwe at the moment, where they're gradually loosening sanctions to allow them to develop their economy somewhat. Zimbabwe, in turn, agreed to draft a new constitution and hold elections. It's gradual give and take. It's not a process of putting sanctions in place and Mugabe resigning the next day. Progress can be slow, or it can be non-existent, depending on the situation.

Sanctions played no role in my opinion.

Really now? :erm:

The country was bankrupt, no development was taking place, including in areas where the majority of the population would have benefited (even if it would have been skewed). This all fed into the approaching potential civil war situation. The sanctions were also symbolically useful in that it defined the previous government as the 'them' in an us vs. them world. It isolated us from most of the world, economically and diplomatically. The sanctions placed on the government and its officials specifically also helped them realise they aren't welcome internationally.

The role of sanctions is debatable, obviously. But saying they played no role? Come on now.

 

[w1z4rd]

So this is our annual "ZOMG NORTH KOREA!!!!" thread. Cool.

 

[w1z4rd]

 

[killadoob]

LOL

Orbital i am still waiting for your list of sanctioned countries who have turned out fine or their leaders have decided to take a different path.

I said i will give you SA but sanctions to me only seem to make those countries more and more angry.

Ghoti when last did north korea tell diplomats to get out of the country and when last did they openly declare war? 1953 or something along those lines.

 

[w1z4rd]

Ghoti when last did north korea tell diplomats to get out of the country and when last did they openly declare war? 1953 or something along those lines.

The war has never ended since they started. The just sometimes call truces for a short while, but the original state of war has stood since the beginning.

Kim removed some of his fathers generals and he has the lowest approval amongst military leaders of any of the North Korean dictators. He has to do some intense saber rustling to polarize his people and assert his credibility with the military. While I am not absolutely discounting that this might get out of control, Im pretty confident it wont. Not of the last umpteen times were anything to go by. I mean, last time they shot artillery at an South Korean Island and they sunk a South Korean Navy ship.

On the other hand if Kim does go full retard and escalate this and give America a reason to invade. At least the situation will finally be resolved. For better or worse.

 

[Space_Chief]

Your list:

1. SA

My list of the top of my head and i may be wrong with some of them.

1. Iraq
2. Libya
3. iran
4. venezuela
5. cuba
6. nk
7. oooooooooo i forgot Zimbabwe

you can correct me if i have listed something wrong.

Burma. There has been some thawing of state control of media, at least with papers opening up.

 

[Picard]

Burma. There has been some thawing of state control of media, at least with papers opening up.

That was Rambo kicking the **** out of them.

 

[killadoob]

The war has never ended since they started. The just sometimes call truces for a short while, but the original state of war has stood since the beginning.

Kim removed some of his fathers generals and he has the lowest approval amongst military leaders of any of the North Korean dictators. He has to do some intense saber rustling to polarize his people and assert his credibility with the military. While I am not absolutely discounting that this might get out of control, Im pretty confident it wont. Not of the last umpteen times were anything to go by. I mean, last time they shot artillery at an South Korean Island and they sunk a South Korean Navy ship.

On the other hand if Kim does go full retard and escalate this and give America a reason to invade. At least the situation will finally be resolved. For better or worse.

I'm going to ask you again and read carefully when last did north korea declare war with the south. when last did they verbally come out and declare war, i know the war has not officially ended but when last did they verbally declare war again?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Kim-Jong-Un-rogue-state-faces-isolation.html

Now take the technicality out of your thinking(nothing wrong with it and i know the war has never ended so you are not wrong) and tell me when last was there a headline or news article indicating NK is going to war with SK at any moment? better yet when last did the NK openly threaten and declare war in recent history.

I know they have spoken a bunch of BS in the past but have they threatened to nuke anyone and go to war with SK in the last 10-15 year years, even 30 years?

 

[Hosehead]

North Korea = Drama queens .
The sooner some one bomb's that country in to the stone age the better and safer the rest of the world will be.

You can't put something in the Stone Age that is already in the Stone Age. What you do is bomb them back to the pre- neolithic age (where they played with bits of wood) from the current paleolithic age they are in.

 

[w1z4rd]

I'm going to ask you again and read carefully when last did north korea declare war with the south. when last did they verbally come out and declare war, i know the war has not officially ended but when last did they verbally declare war again?

I declare war. I still declare war! then I still still declare war! then I still still still declare war! Every cycle they add something new to mix. As I said, last time North Korea was physically attacking South Korea. They not even that far this time.

Now take the technicality out of your thinking(nothing wrong with it and i know the war has never ended so you are not wrong) and tell me when last was there a headline or news article indicating NK is going to war with SK at any moment? better yet when last did the NK openly threaten and declare war in recent history.

Theyre at it all the time. This is a 10 year only search of results and its bluster over and over again.
https://www.google.co.za/search?q=k...cp.r_qf.&fp=d2d334216ac02876&biw=1680&bih=949

I know they have spoken a bunch of BS in the past but have they threatened to nuke anyone and go to war with SK in the last 10-15 year years, even 30 years?

Theyre always threatening something.

 

[killadoob]

Only thing i found there was North Korea Agrees to Scrap Nuclear Weapons Program...

Didn't see anything about NK declaring war and getting ready for one. Perhaps you can't get past the officially never ended part and see what i am talking about. Not a big issue if you can't move past the never ended.

obviously the N Koreans thought it ended or they would not have used the declare war wording
‎

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Okay killa, usual modus operandi then? Ignoring pretty much my whole post. And still not answering the question. Gotcha.

 

[BCO]

You have been banned from /r/pyongyang

 

[biometrics]

Okay killa, usual modus operandi then? Ignoring pretty much my whole post. And still not answering the question. Gotcha.

Sometimes I think killadoob and marine1 is the same person ...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Sometimes I think killadoob and marine1 is the same person ...

Could be bi-polar disorder. Or split personalities... Can keep himself entertained for a long time.

 

[killadoob]

International pressure through sanctions. The country was bankrupt, and eventually they realised the jig was up. The ANC didn't really do much to be honest, they were just there at the end.

You still haven't answered the question. Should sanctions never be used? And how else do you think the world should deal with people who pose a threat to their neighbours, or commit crimes against their own people? Should they be left completely alone?

Sorry about that, forgot about it after my swim .

Nope sanctions are a waste of time, all they do is create hatred. Our old government had no choice, looming civil war they decided to go the logical route.

So now i have answered your question and i don't believe sanctions work. Now give me your list of countries where they have worked.

I said i will give you SA even though i don't think sanctions forced their hand. they had a choice civil war or freedom for the black folk they chose correctly, waiting for 4 more countries where sanctions have worked.