Old MacBook Pros encounter problems due to macOS Big Sur

[|tera|]

yeah, it's not even about which one you like more... it's about which one you hate less
I'm not an MacOS fanboy, I'm just the opposite of a Windows fanboy.

I'm a Windows baby.
Started with 3.1 in the early 90's.
I'm 36 today, so I was fairly young.
Most of my career I've administered Windows based networks and servers.

When I've had to offer support on MacOS I've been lost and frustrated just due to the foreign design which I'm not used to.

The first Mac (not a notebook) I worked on had bloody malware on it.
Loaded Malwarebytes and removed almost 10 active entries.

Not a great start in my Apple journey.
I also can't justify the cost.
For people that need a short term Apple only solution, I always suggest MacOS cloud services. Pay a few dollars and access a full Mac experience in your browser.

Companies that 'can't' afford salaries, but can afford Apple devices make me fume as well.

 

[elf_lord_ZC5]

yeah, it's not even about which one you like more... it's about which one you hate less
I'm not an MacOS fanboy, I'm just the opposite of a Windows fanboy.

Thats the truth, about the one you hate the least, what gave me the most joy, was Win 3.11 for Workgroups ...

 

[Swa]

I'm saying that it should be a lot easier for MacOS than Windows since people keep pointing at Apple when Windows messes up updates for fringe variants.
For Apple, hardware testing should be quite easy, it's only software variant testing that they need to have even more variants for, and MacOS doesn't have as many configuration variants either (the joy of MacOS is the lack of messing with settings/customizations).

I've never punted Apple. Thing is that when things go awry you can usually start afresh but the fact that you can't even boot means this is more than simply a software issue and somehow the hardware is involved. Could be any number of things that messes up the update so it's not really a case of only having 30 machines to test. The problem with Windows is MS has no quality control. The users have become the testers for these millions of machines.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

Luckily I've never had to buy my own macbook...

Had to use Windows on my home pc this year because of studies, and I swore every time I used it.
Main reason I'll continue using MacOS is because I hate less things about it than I do about Windows.

Im interested to know what those things are.
I despise MacOS, I use it only because of the *nix backend but its definitely a lot less customizable and in many regards less intuitive than Windows.

 

[|tera|]

I've never punted Apple. Thing is that when things go awry you can usually start afresh but the fact that you can't even boot means this is more than simply a software issue and somehow the hardware is involved. Could be any number of things that messes up the update so it's not really a case of only having 30 machines to test. The problem with Windows is MS has no quality control. The users have become the testers for these millions of machines.

Which I don't see an issue with.
The performance gain I received from build 2004 to 20H2 is staggering.

The users aren't testers.
Anonymous statistics (viewable and transparent and the choice to flush it) allow them to improve the product.

I'm not condoning all of MS.
I hate the changes coming in terms of dropping the legacy control panel.

MS has to have good quality control to work on millions of devices. That's just common sense.

 

[Swa]

Which I don't see an issue with.
The performance gain I received from build 2004 to 20H2 is staggering.

The users aren't testers.
Anonymous statistics (viewable and transparent and the choice to flush it) allow them to improve the product.

I'm not condoning all of MS.
I hate the changes coming in terms of dropping the legacy control panel.

MS has to have good quality control to work on millions of devices. That's just common sense.

I beg to differ. Testing and quality control are different things. MS has no QC any more since the new update process where updates are pushed onto the user base after leaving just a small subset of configurations.

 

[SAguy]

Im interested to know what those things are.
I despise MacOS, I use it only because of the *nix backend but its definitely a lot less customizable and in many regards less intuitive than Windows.

Hard to think of the things I hate (about both) off the top of my head, it's usually an annoyed moment of "fkn windows/mac".

What I was moaning about this weekend past though:
On windows I hate that you can't shift your cursor in text by 1 word at a time. On mac your option + arrow, and command + arrow shift the cursor 1 one at a time and start/end line respectively. Without having to move your hands to the end/home buttons.

More hardware related, but the macbook trackpad is the best trackpad I've ever used. No non-mac laptop has ever come close IMO. Working on another laptop trackpads frustrates me, or then I use a mouse which doesn't have all the gestures that the mac trackpad has.

A win for windows is how much easier it is to move applications across multiple screens and make the full screen. On mac this can be frustrating.

I don't do much customising, 90% of my day is spent in VSCode and iterm2 - and I don't game either.

 

[elf_lord_ZC5]

I beg to differ. Testing and quality control are different things. MS has no QC any more since the new update process where updates are pushed onto the user base after leaving just a small subset of configurations.

Why a large number of users get screwed over every update

 

[|tera|]

I beg to differ. Testing and quality control are different things. MS has no QC any more since the new update process where updates are pushed onto the user base after leaving just a small subset of configurations.

Your previous post said users are testers. They aren't.

Do you have a link to share regarding the lack of quality control and a small set of configurations?

 

[PhireSide]

What I was moaning about this weekend past though:
On windows I hate that you can't shift your cursor in text by 1 word at a time. On mac your option + arrow, and command + arrow shift the cursor 1 one at a time and start/end line respectively. Without having to move your hands to the end/home buttons.

Doesn't Ctrl+Shift + arrow keys achieve this? I may be misunderstanding you though, because to me it sounds like you want to highlight word for word using the arrow keys?

If you mean shift the cursor then just use the above combination to move the cursor to where you want it to be, let go of the Ctrl+Shift and tap the arrow once more and it should do what I think you want it to do.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

Hard to think of the things I hate (about both) off the top of my head, it's usually an annoyed moment of "fkn windows/mac".

What I was moaning about this weekend past though:
On windows I hate that you can't shift your cursor in text by 1 word at a time. On mac your option + arrow, and command + arrow shift the cursor 1 one at a time and start/end line respectively. Without having to move your hands to the end/home buttons.

More hardware related, but the macbook trackpad is the best trackpad I've ever used. No non-mac laptop has ever come close IMO. Working on another laptop trackpads frustrates me, or then I use a mouse which doesn't have all the gestures that the mac trackpad has.

A win for windows is how much easier it is to move applications across multiple screens and make the full screen. On mac this can be frustrating.

I don't do much customising, 90% of my day is spent in VSCode and iterm2 - and I don't game either.

The moving of cursor and home/end part is literally the most frustrating part of MacOS for me. It only works on the Mac, when you work in remote applications like Linux or Windows servers then that all falls away. As a result I use a Windows keyboard on my MBP now.

One of the best things for me about MacOS was the cmd+shift+4 for screenshots, it made such a difference to my workflow and I take tons of screenshots every day. I see Windows has caught up with that now and also has it.
One thing I was hoping for in Big Sur was the multi-entry clipboard which Windows has these days, that is super useful.

Arrangement of windows and having to right click, option click on a stack of windows to the find the correct one really annoys me. There might be easier ways to do it but I havent bothered to look yet, if its not intuitive enough to figure out yourself then its generally bad UI design.

The touchpad on a Macbook though is a thing of beauty, no other device even comes close to it. I never use it anymore because my Logitech MX master 2s has gesture support and it works well enough to not lose any functionality.

 

[Swa]

Your previous post said users are testers. They aren't.

Do you have a link to share regarding the lack of quality control and a small set of configurations?

What do you call a tester? It has become apparent that Windows updates are betas. One of them broke midi devices, so it wasn't even tested on a single device in their small alpha insider group before being released to the public.

 

[|tera|]

What do you call a tester? It has become apparent that Windows updates are betas. One of them broke midi devices, so it wasn't even tested on a single device in their small alpha insider group before being released to the public.

Your understanding of the word tester differs from mine.

Testers are specifically employed to be a tester. Users that use products with telemetry services are not testers.

You assume the updates are beta.
A handfull, as you said effected midi devices.

It's 2020. Midi devices are archaic.
Who the hell would want to use a midi device?

Sound engineers that can't afford proper equipment?

 

[elf_lord_ZC5]

Your understanding of the word tester differs from mine.

Testers are specifically employed to be a tester. Users that use products with telemetry services are not testers.

You assume the updates are beta.
A handfull, as you said effected midi devices.

It's 2020. Midi devices are archaic.
Who the hell would want to use a midi device?

Sound engineers that can't afford proper equipment?

If you are a musician, use keyboards of any sort, then MIDI is still very relevant today.

 

[|tera|]

If you are a musician, use keyboards of any sort, then MIDI is still very relevant today.

Thanks. I stand corrected.
I doubt there was a fallout though.
People lost important info from external storage due to an update.

These cases are all the same the minority. I haven't had issues on Windows any time this year. Most of my issues are due to me choosing to fiddle and be a tester. I like to see how the OS works.
Linux is the same.

 

[Gravedigger]

If you are a musician, use keyboards of any sort, then MIDI is still very relevant today.

Midi keyboards is still relevant today in the music industry. a colleague of mine uses his Macbook to play the piano, the "piano" is just a USB MIDI keyboard, so his options is open, playing from SFX to flutes on the thing.
So, everytime you see a MacBook on top of someone's "piano" or keyboard, it may be the music making device, and not the keyboard itself.
PreviousIy, thought they used Macbooks as the digital sheetpaper display. They could have used iPads for that.

Have you heard of the T2 Chip on macbooks causing amok with the USB2.0 devices (MIDI to USB, USB sound cards which is not USB3.0) which caused audio pops/clicks and more?

 

[Lord Flacko]

Oh well maybe the frustration will cause those with slightly older macs to get the M1 Macs. Then you’ll hear “Apple’s fastest selling lineup of Macs.” at next years Apple Keynote event.

I’ve been using OSX (macOS) since my early 20’s. I use Windows daily, I’ve been lucky not to experience weird issues on either OS.

 

[Johnatan56]

Midi keyboards is still relevant today in the music industry. a colleague of mine uses his Macbook to play the piano, the "piano" is just a USB MIDI keyboard, so his options is open, playing from SFX to flutes on the thing.
So, everytime you see a MacBook on top of someone's "piano" or keyboard, it may be the music making device, and not the keyboard itself.
PreviousIy, thought they used Macbooks as the digital sheetpaper display. They could have used iPads for that.

Have you heard of the T2 Chip on macbooks causing amok with the USB2.0 devices (MIDI to USB, USB sound cards which is not USB3.0) which caused audio pops/clicks and more?

Pro audio glitch with T2-equipped Macs associated with USB 2.0 connections | AppleInsider

The dropouts plaguing audio interfaces on Macs with Apple's T2 chip involve an overload of a USB bus running in the slower USB 2.0 speed, according to an Ableton-certified trainer.

appleinsider.com

Is Apple's T2 Chip Ruining Producers' Recordings?

An increasing number of users are reporting issues when trying to record audio on Apple computers that use the T2 secure chip. What is going on?

ask.audio

There do seem to be issues with Midi devices on Windows as well, but seem to be random for some people and then fixed again a while later. Again, lots of different devices.

 

[Gravedigger]

Your understanding of the word tester differs from mine.

Testers are specifically employed to be a tester. Users that use products with telemetry services are not testers.

You assume the updates are beta.
A handfull, as you said effected midi devices.

It's 2020. Midi devices are archaic.
Who the hell would want to use a midi device?

Sound engineers that can't afford proper equipment?

MIDI is 'archaic' since it was introduced in 1932 with two devices (Roland Jupiter 6 and Prophet 600) and the MIDI spec was released in 1933.
Yes, still archaic, but still used today.
Ask any sound engineer if he can live without MIDI...
Probably not.

 

[Gravedigger]

Pro audio glitch with T2-equipped Macs associated with USB 2.0 connections | AppleInsider

The dropouts plaguing audio interfaces on Macs with Apple's T2 chip involve an overload of a USB bus running in the slower USB 2.0 speed, according to an Ableton-certified trainer.

appleinsider.com

Is Apple's T2 Chip Ruining Producers' Recordings?

An increasing number of users are reporting issues when trying to record audio on Apple computers that use the T2 secure chip. What is going on?

ask.audio

There do seem to be issues with Midi devices on Windows as well, but seem to be random for some people and then fixed again a while later. Again, lots of different devices.

Louis Rossmann's view on T2 chips.