Open Source Network

Anyone is welcome to join a wug, as long as it's not used for anything commercial. On PTAWUG we have people form all walks of life and ages and professions. It is totally open - on PTAWUG we have no hierarchy, there's only a admin group that manages the IPs and routing - anyone can become an admin as long as you want to learn or are already able to manage ips and routing.

The only rules that PTAWUG enforces are the rules that are enforced by ICASA. Which other rules are wugs enforcing ?

WUGs are like Radio Amateur groups, only using wifi.

The hardware prices are the prices, thats just the way it is - unless you are very close to a highsite you can probably connect using a PCI card and antenna.
check www.scoop.co.za, www.miro.co.za, www.antennas.co.za, www.dbg.co.za, www.wirecom.co.za for prices.

Where are wug groups portraying themselves as "official" networks ? in what sense ?

People that donate time and money aren't looking for cred, they are looking for better network speeds, better stability and redundancy.

Which independant networks want to plug into wug infrastructure ? They are welcome to do so, as long as they are non-commercial, non-profit networks.
 
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metalcore said:
The WUGs are cool but what puts me off from them are the expensive hardware costs and what really makes me want to stay away is the whiff of leetism I get from the groups.

By leetism im referring to where the main guys go on like they own the thing and want to enforce rules. It should be truly open like the Internet and if people want to donate time and money and hardware they should be willing to do so without looking for cred.

By the WUG groups purpotraying themselves as the "official" networks where does this leave independant networks that eventually want to plug into the WUG infrastructure...

There shouldnt be an official free open WAN or MAN it there should just be groups coordinating things fairly, much like the internet as a whole. No one group owns the whole internet.
Click to expand...

Exactly. "Official" standards exist in order to simplify connectivity between networks, not to segregate them.
 
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protzkrog said:
Which independant networks want to plug into wug infrastructure ? They are welcome to do so, as long as they are non-commercial, non-profit networks.
Click to expand...

How many of those are there really? I can't remember the last time I set up a non-profit network, unless you count LAN games.
 
Grant Petersen said:
Exactly. "Official" standards exist in order to simplify connectivity between networks, not to segregate them.
Click to expand...

which networks are segregated ? examples ?

PTAWUG and Jawug is linked, only one running at the moment - 45km from Valhalla in PTA to central JHB.

Planning next one from Rietvlei in PTA to the Lafarge plant near Kempton Park.
 
because it's ICASA. People like Altech take them on.

Maybe the wugs do not want to provide internet. I certainly know that I don't want PTAWUG to become a business that provides internet. The wug is built and maintained by members in their spare time as a hobby. If a site goes down, it stays down until someone has time to go and fix it, or until we have money to replace whatever broke.
I don't want to be bombarded by emails and phonecalls "why isnt my internet working, booohooohoo, I paid my R50".

See the wugs as radio amateur groups, but using wifi. The goal is not to become a telecoms service provider.
 
OK. I think I see where all the objections are coming from. You guys, and ICASA, see the internet as some kind of corporate nightmare. The internet is really nothing more than networked computers. WUG is bound to grow into something resembling the internet given enough time, it's inevitable, but it will grow much faster if it is linked to the largest network on earth.

"If a site goes down, it stays down until someone has time to go and fix it, or until we have money to replace whatever broke." Applies as much to the internet as to WUG. So long as the connection to WUG remains FREE of charge why be concerned about what information is being transmitted?
 
We know what the internet is.

If your internet connection at home goes down, you phone your ISP to complain/fix/help. You pay them, its their duty.
WUG is not a ISP. WUG does not want to be a ISP. WUG is not allowed to be an ISP - www.icasa.org.za. WUG is non-profit, non-commercial. WUG has no income, except donations. WUG doesnt charge anything.

No one is concerned about the information that is transferred ? So in the scenario where the wug is connected to the internet, who pays for the bandwith ? Who manages everything ? Then it will not be a WUG, but a WISP.
 
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I am not suggesting that WUG charge anything.

Who pays for bandwidth at the moment? The host AND the person accessing the host. In my scenario, neither pays. If I was to connect my web server to WUG I would not be paying for bandwidth and neither would WUG users. The fact that my web server is also accessible via the internet should be irrelevant. I only pay for bandwidth that is used via the internet connection. If all the SA web hosts connect to each other via WUG then local internet will be essentially free. If ISP's connect their proxy servers to WUG, or connect through one centralised one, we could even get some international bandwidth free too.
 
your webserver ? huh ? first time you mention it.

what sites are hosted on your server ?
 
My thing is that I have noticed too much leetism (cant think of a better way to describe it) This tends to let egos get in the way but its not in every community, protzkrog you however sound like a fair guy though.

What puts me off about the WUGs is the way it seems like they are the only official WUG and if anyone wants to join they have to get approved. At least thats how CTWUG put it across. I can't just go and take a pc and connect to it I must first join the site and get them to approve me.

What would truly be free and open would be if I could just take PC get it to listen for DHCP and just connect ad hoc where ever I am within the coverage area.

The WUG sites should be providing info on all the different access points and co-ordinate between different groups running their own different networks. For example if some people in some complex somewhere have their own network and wish to add it to the cloud then they shouldnt need permission.

It just feels too much like its one groups network. The WUG groups network. Ownership needs to be relingquished to the network like the internet. Different companies control different parts of the infrastructure but nobody can truly own it.

As for security people need to take responsibilty for their own security and what data they expose through the network much like with the internet.
 
metalcore: you dont need to be approved or permission - you just need to plot your location on the site - so the network diagram can be updated and record can be kept of who connects where - if for instance a site moves or goes down - the people connecting to it can be contacted and informed to connect to another site or whatever.
We do not use DHCP, OSPF routing with static last mile. Thus you need to connect to IRC and request a IP, it's done like that on all the wugs - 312 users connected to PTAWUG.

We have many communes that connect to the different wugs - people that had their own wired or wireless network on the property and just route that to the wug as well, no problem, has never been a problem. They still need to connect to IRC and get ips (which isnt difficult at all)

www.wug.za.net has google earth KML files indicating all the access points, nodes, links etc.
wind.ctwug.za.net does the same for cape town - all the info is there.

The users on the wug decide what happens on the wug. I know CTWUG always vote about big issues or changes to the network, what the community decides happens. If you are connected you have a say.

Everyone takes responsibility for their own home network's security.
 
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