Openserve increasing its fibre prices

[Slckrck]

Out of interest what do you think is the margin CISP makes on a typical 100Mbps Openserve customer in Gauteng?

ISPs are not the problem, FNOs and their ridiculous ROI demands are. They can certainly extend the window since fibre networks are long-term deployments, the whole network won't need to be replaced every 7-10 years unlike a cellular network. Initial capital outlay can be recovered over a longer period....maybe they don't believe SA is a long-term investment and want to maximise short-term profits.

 

[Swa]

Chances are you’re gonna pay $20-25 plus taxes and a variety of creative fees for a basic assymetrical service in the US - that’s not that far off from us?

In real world terms that's still only R175, but even if we took it at R500 a basic connection over there still beats our 25mbps and in many cases it's not a single cost but bundled as part of another service.

Now granted we have some unique challenges but we still have it relatively easy. Cheap labour, heck even your garbage collector earns multiple times what our average manual labourer earns. Densities, the average home is 3-4 times the size and distance than ours yet these idiots complain about population densities making it difficult. Numerous other costs which are way less here. The margins over there are paper thin. A 2-3 year ROI is basically unheard of yet these guys want us to believe they are doing us a favour.

The real problem here is consumers are too easily swayed and believe the excuses they are told. Companies don't have to work to get their business. And what is this about people thinking that a consolidated ISP and network market will mean another monopoly? Reselling internet access isn't something I'm aware of in any other market. I know it won't be popular but it's something we would have to address and discontinue at some point as all of the competitive markets only have ISPs.

 

[quovadis]

In real world terms that's still only R175, but even if we took it at R500 a basic connection over there still beats our 25mbps and in many cases it's not a single cost but bundled as part of another service.

Now granted we have some unique challenges but we still have it relatively easy. Cheap labour, heck even your garbage collector earns multiple times what our average manual labourer earns. Densities, the average home is 3-4 times the size and distance than ours yet these idiots complain about population densities making it difficult. Numerous other costs which are way less here. The margins over there are paper thin. A 2-3 year ROI is basically unheard of yet these guys want us to believe they are doing us a favour.

The real problem here is consumers are too easily swayed and believe the excuses they are told. Companies don't have to work to get their business. And what is this about people thinking that a consolidated ISP and network market will mean another monopoly? Reselling internet access isn't something I'm aware of in any other market. I know it won't be popular but it's something we would have to address and discontinue at some point as all of the competitive markets only have ISPs.

You can argue it any which way but from a comparative real world direct conversion comparison of SA vs US for the average American they’re paying more than we are for similar speeds or worse for a fibre service.

 

[Clean Green]

I'm over it. No more me just taking it, either they start making me compelling offers or I will spend my money elsewhere, even if it means I'd have to sacrifice stability of a fibre connection for that of a wireless one. Cellular networks are far more expensive to maintain than fibre networks but they seem to manage cheaper pricing..... guess we can't have nice things like the rest of the world.

Cutting your nose off to spite your face. I give it 3 months and you will be back on fibre. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[supersunbird]

That sounds like a whole lot of convenient excuses for an industry that apparently is incapable of innovation and cost rationalisations..... I'm pretty much at the end of letting myself get exploited, all the excuses they use to hide behind like the disfunctional government, the weak volatile currency, the vandalism, the crime, the need to subsidise the poor, the rain, the sun.....the freaking windy....I'm over it. No more me just taking it, either they start making me compelling offers or I will spend my money elsewhere, even if it means I'd have to sacrifice stability of a fibre connection for that of a wireless one. Cellular networks are far more expensive to maintain than fibre networks but they seem to manage cheaper pricing..... guess we can't have nice things like the rest of the world.

*laughs in wireless price increases*

 

[quovadis]

Idk even with the variations in pricing in the US, their minimum speeds on specifically fibre but mostly cable as well are far faster than ours, yet we pay the equivalent prices. And I'm not counting small providers like Sonic (who offers ridiculous speeds for $60 in some areas). What we get for $30 Vs what they get for $30 is like we're in the stone age. Their typography is worse than ours in many cases, so we can't blame it on difficult landscapes, we can't blame it on government sanctioned area monopolies like they suffer. So all that we can conclude is these FNOs are either greedy as hell or extremely badly run. Either way they don't deserve our customer loyalty.

I think you need to start being specific because my experience is that the established players are similarly or more expensive than our market. And by established I'm referring to fibre providers with a footprint outside of a metro area or single state. Quoting Sonic is a little disingenuous as it's basically just a few metros in California.

 

[jambai]

So they drop the prices like a year ago and then now increase . Do you think loadshedding has something to do with it as openserve does stay up during loadshedding and we all know how much there been

 

[quovadis]

So they drop the prices like a year ago and then now increase . Do you think loadshedding has something to do with it as openserve does stay up during loadshedding and we all know how much there been

Safe to say that any increase in cost including mitigation of load shedding would be a factor. I'd also argue the industry is very much consolidating which results in less aggression in the market.

 

[BCR]

Nah I will be moving to 5G at a reasonable price, fibre is great as an idea, but not worth it because of the FNO'S price gouging....they care more about investor institutions than their long-term prosperity or their customers.

What is a "reasonable" price in your view ?

Less than R580 pm for uncapped (that's not on contract), because that's what I'm after.

Please give an example or more, if you have any, as I'd like to see if they're options I can consider.

 

[Gaz{M}]

Safe to say that any increase in cost including mitigation of load shedding would be a factor. I'd also argue the industry is very much consolidating which results in less aggression in the market.

The partial state-owned entity added that it had spent R655 million on diesel and back-up batteries in the year to end-March 2023 to ease Eskom’s load shedding on its business.

Plus everything they buy is in dollars:

Average exchange rate in 2023: 18.4527 ZAR.
Best exchange rate: 16.7211 ZAR on 12 Jan 2023.
Now it is: R19.24

 

[Swa]

You can argue it any which way but from a comparative real world direct conversion comparison of SA vs US for the average American they’re paying more than we are for similar speeds or worse for a fibre service.

And you can slice it however you want but they have a lot more costs than us to account for. It's also not something you can do a direct conversion on because the depreciation of the Rand skews the result and does not reflect real world costs.

But if you don't want to look over there then look at our African counterparts. Even they are sweeping the floor with these guys as I showed before using direct conversion. Your argument does not hold water, and it was MTN I used as an example no less.

Cutting your nose off to spite your face. I give it 3 months and you will be back on fibre. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

You think? I've never been on fibre or adsl because of these shenanigans. Not all of us are addicted to our fibre fix.

What is a "reasonable" price in your view ?

Less than R580 pm for uncapped (that's not on contract), because that's what I'm after.

Please give an example or more, if you have any, as I'd like to see if they're options I can consider.

R200-300 for 10-15Mbps.

 

[Clean Green]

You think? I've never been on fibre or adsl because of these shenanigans. Not all of us are addicted to our fibre fix.

I could never get ADSL as we lived too far from the exchange. My options were fixed wireless or LTE. Fixed wireless was stupid expensive and LTE was always congested at night. I remember the days of 144p YouTube videos buffering and wanting to pull my hair out.

Fibre is a massive step-up in the game. If wireless works for you, then I'm glad you found something worthwhile, but as someone working from home and having been stuck with crappy Internet most of my life, I'll keep fibre as long as I can afford it, even if it costs slightly more than Rain's 5G or other fixed LTE/5G options.

 

[BCR]

R200-300 for 10-15Mbps.

The only uncapped solution available to me I know of, that's covered by your figures, is Frogfoot Air @ R295 for 10 / 1 Mbps.

But it's limited to 100 square metres, so won't cover the entire house, and relevant port/s blocked in order to expand on it.

Not even ADSL is cheap enough anymore - Afrihost R297 for only 5 Mbps, while 20 Mbps costs more than I can get the slowest "proper" 60 / 30 fibre for.

Which is all why I wanted to know what was regarded by the poster as "reasonable" 5G they were going back to.

 

[BCR]

I could never get ADSL as we lived too far from the exchange. My options were fixed wireless or LTE. Fixed wireless was stupid expensive and LTE was always congested at night. I remember the days of 144p YouTube videos buffering and wanting to pull my hair out.

Fibre is a massive step-up in the game. If wireless works for you, then I'm glad you found something worthwhile, but as someone working from home and having been stuck with crappy Internet most of my life, I'll keep fibre as long as I can afford it, even if it costs slightly more than Rain's 5G or other fixed LTE/5G options.

I'm slowly coming 'round to your way of thinking. If I want uncapped, will have to "bite the bullet" and get fibre.

Just hope it's stable + get close to the speeds paying for.

Probably sometime in April, and what it'll also alleviate is having to micro-manage 2 LTE connections I've been having to the last 2 months.

 

[Clean Green]

I'm slowly coming 'round to your way of thinking. If I want uncapped, will have to "bite the bullet" and get fibre.

Just hope it's stable + get close to the speeds paying for.

Probably sometime in April, and what it'll also alleviate is having to micro-manage 2 LTE connections I've been having to the last 2 months.

As long as it's not frogfoot you should be fine.

 

[BCR]

As long as it's not frogfoot you should be fine.

It is, and the only fibre option I have.

Obviously, seen all the negative comments over the last 2 to 3 years on the forum but strangely people who have it nearby never complain (in a WhatsApp group).

Maybe they don't know any better (?), which is then worrying.

 

[quovadis]

And you can slice it however you want but they have a lot more costs than us to account for. It's also not something you can do a direct conversion on because the depreciation of the Rand skews the result and does not reflect real world costs.

But if you don't want to look over there then look at our African counterparts. Even they are sweeping the floor with these guys as I showed before using direct conversion. Your argument does not hold water, and it was MTN I used as an example no less.

I'm not gonna get into a debate about PPP as my comment you engaged on was an opinion on ZA vs US fibre services. If you want to shift the goal posts to African countries to support your point on ZA/US fibre you're just shifting the goal posts to suit your argument.

 

[Swa]

I could never get ADSL as we lived too far from the exchange. My options were fixed wireless or LTE. Fixed wireless was stupid expensive and LTE was always congested at night. I remember the days of 144p YouTube videos buffering and wanting to pull my hair out.

Fibre is a massive step-up in the game. If wireless works for you, then I'm glad you found something worthwhile, but as someone working from home and having been stuck with crappy Internet most of my life, I'll keep fibre as long as I can afford it, even if it costs slightly more than Rain's 5G or other fixed LTE/5G options.

Point is there ARE other options. You may feel you have no real option but that can't be the case for everyone who feels like that. Most people just don't want a bit of inconvenience and your average consumer is just willing to put up with what is dished out instead of these operators working for their business.

I'm not gonna get into a debate about PPP as my comment you engaged on was an opinion on ZA vs US fibre services. If you want to shift the goal posts to African countries to support your point on ZA/US fibre you're just shifting the goal posts to suit your argument.

Err... the point was how SA operators are fleecing customers. The US was merely as example. And if you don't want to engage on PPP it just shows you have no clear understanding of these concepts and why I suggested you look elsewhere where you can easily compare.

 

[quovadis]

Err... the point was how SA operators are fleecing customers. The US was merely as example. And if you don't want to engage on PPP it just shows you have no clear understanding of these concepts and why I suggested you look elsewhere where you can easily compare.

What part of "my comments were in relation to the US and ZA comparison" do you not understand? I didn't introduce the US/ZA argument either. I was commenting on someone elses post who provided the US/ZA argument.

 

[Swa]

What part of "my comments were in relation to the US and ZA comparison" do you not understand? I didn't introduce the US/ZA argument either. I was commenting on someone elses post who provided the US/ZA argument.

And you don't seem to understand it which is WHY I suggested looking elsewhere then. But PPP is not something that can actually be ignored and the variable costs are a lot more over there.