Openweb addresses concerns: ADSL duplicate accounts, shaping, throttling

LazyLion

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[video=youtube;BY1k1GcZRww]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY1k1GcZRww[/video]
 

Fulcrum29

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They must update their terms accordingly.

Our CC registration name is Open ISP cc trading as OpenWeb. We have been registered since 2005. We also have the pending trademark for the brand name ‘OpenWeb’.

There was an error on the CIPRO registration information regarding our physical address. We have since requested them to update this.

They only noticed this now, they must have surely picked this up with their accountant(s) and annual returns?

We are a proudly ‘Cloud Based’ ISP, with staff working from all over the country (and the world). This allows us to pull from a much larger talent pool as well as save on costly physical overheads. It also allows us to scale up or down as load demands.

Keyword: Desentralised
 

i.got~issues

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/sigh

Media statement = investigative journalism

SANRAL would be proud. Vusi Moni, are you taking notes how to effectively blurt out PR copy and avoid the real issues!

:sick:
 

karnuffel

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His answers makes a lot of sense, then we look at the facts and things gets a bit shaky...
 

MrR

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Let's thank MyBB for posting the article; they have assisted us consumers, even though it may only feel as if it is to a certain extent. It's not the answers that many will accept, but nonetheless, in between the lines you might find your answers.


On usage tracking and account sharing:

Keoma did not answer why they blocked users from accessing userstats.isdsl.net

2 years ago we made a decision to not actively monitor usage stats on our uncapped accounts by default after some ISPs started throttling their users after a certain amount of GB’s used.

We then setup our radius and network accordingly. Many of our clients prefer us not to know how much they have used. However, due to client demand most of the new accounts purchased have usage stats activated by default.

1. How were they able to provide MyBB with the stats on their "bandwidth hogs" if it is not actively monitored?

2. My usage stats on userstats.isdsl.net and userstats.adsl.saix.net was perfectly aligned with my usage patterns, my own monitoring and my own IP address, so after validating those systems, I'd put a relative level of reliance in them. Both tools also accurately confirmed each time I reset my sessions. So, if a tool that works 100% and is relatively reliable, why can I not use it? Is it because I could see an additional connection on my profile? A connection that was based somewhere in the Eastern Cape, whilst I'm in the Western Cape? Is it because there's still an active connection on that profile, which had collectively done 1.7GB download on Monday night....whilst I hadn't used the account in more than 5 days? Why would that other connection's session end every time that I asked for a password reset; authentication issues much?

On shaping/throttling:
How busy it is at the time;
The service level the client has purchased – e.g. Gold, Standard, etc.; and
The priority the client has on the network related to the selected service level.
Shaping is then applied from the heaviest protocols to the lightest, excluding browsing

Based on the service levels experienced first hand, browsing has most definitely been shaped in the past. Like myself, there are various other members that experienced a totally unusable account during office hours. Why would my account, without fail, die from 08h00~08h30 every week day and then miraculously jump back to life around 17h00, and in the entirety of that time, the account would be an absolute waste of money. Totally unusable.

Although we do not have concrete evidence, there's members that were on the lowest tiered accounts that outperformed gold user accounts.

OpenWeb has suffered and continues to suffer irreparable reputational damage, which they will never walk away from, and it's going to hurt and continue to hurt their bottom line for a long time.
 

Bighit

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Why did it take so long to respond to these issues; did the brand no good.
 

rorz0r

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Shaping is then applied from the heaviest protocols to the lightest, excluding browsing.

So how come you can't browse during the day then?
 

HDS

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What a load of crap from Openweb. Credit to MyBB for tackling them on those issues, but who would ever admit to fraud?
 

wingnut771

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This makes me feel a variety of negative emotions that an ISP can laugh it off to human error or a system glitch and carry on as before without any consequence! :mad:

It seems ISP's can do whatever they like and get away with it.

We all know this response to be BS but like the poster above said, it's a he said she said situation and nothing will come of it.

I have used every single ISP in SA (as I have a try it for yourself policy), so I have a pretty good idea how the different policies work.

Only OW did I have endless problems with accounts either dead from the word go or would die a random death every fortnight or so, so I trust my own conclusions from my own experience than some PR spin in an article.
 

Fulcrum29

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now we are left with a "he said, she said", epic WIN!!

Their terms do not agree with themselves.

According to their terms (http://www.openweb.co.za/terms.pdf):

NETWORK & AVAILABILITY OF ACCESS AND ASSOCIATED ACCEPTABLE USAGE

Keoma said:

We then run our own set of shaping policies, account prioritization and service level profiles. There would not be much point in intentionally sharing the same username and password as we effectively pay for the capacity, not the account.

Their terms:

The OpenISP network may be used to link into other networks in South Africa and universally and the user agrees to conform to the use policies of these networks. (This means that the user must make sure that it does not use other networks, for example Internet Solutions in South Africa, in a way that breaches the rules of use and acceptable usage policies of those networks. All OpenISP ADSL accounts run on the Internet Solutions backbone are therefore also subject to the Internet Solutions Acceptable Usage Policy found at http://www.is.co.za/Legal/Pages/default.aspx.

The above acknowledge that users abides to the IS AUP and that OW runs all it's accounts on the IS backbone. They do not mention MTN in their terms, which bring me back to Keoma:

Wright said that they use the Internet Solutions and MTN backbones.

“The majority of our products run on our network powered by Internet Solutions,” said Wright.

Again with AUP in regard with throttling and shaping, looking at the terms:

OpenISP will not be responsible for the performance of external communications networks and protocols to which the service is connected, including the networks of Internet data package providers other than OpenISP.

Thus, OW do not take responsibility when there is shaping, throttling or network degrading in general. Why? The user agreed to the IS AUP.

IMPORTANT WAIVER AND INDEMNITY

Keoma said:

We do not purchase capacity from SAIX. Based on our research, some account stats are accurate, others are inaccurate. Some clients cannot login with their ADSL username and password into this resource, others can login and no data is displayed.

For this reason, we cannot endorse any information displayed on any third party usage monitoring tool. If clients would like to view their usage stats, and the facility is not available on their control panel, they can request for this feature to be activated.

Yet their terms state:

The service is a usage-based ADSL service. Usage is calculated by third party bandwidth wholesalers, like, but not limited to INTERNET SOLUTIONS and SAIX, and such calculation is considered as being accurate. OpenISP will not be held responsible for any bandwidth loss or theft as it is the user’s responsibility to ensure proper management of their usage.

They cannot endorse the above, neither take responsibility, yet they blocked access to these third-party providers in "certain" cases, preventing the user to take responsibility within his own capacity.

In relation with sharing, according to their terms:

The user may not circumvent user authentication or security of any host, network, or account (referred to as "cracking" or "hacking"), nor interfere with data package to any user, host, or network (referred to as "denial of service attacks") and accepts that it is illegal to do so, constitutes a material breach of the agreement, and affords OpenISP the right to suspend and/or terminate the agreement forthwith.

Then without quoting, according to their "SUSPENSION / TERMINATION OF SERVICE BY OPENISP" clause, there will be additional charges payable/levied against the user.

So did OW breach their own terms by sharing user accounts and will they adhere to their own terms?

We do not actively share accounts between users. A while back we have had a few cases where the system handed out the same username and password to a number of clients.

We swiftly corrected the issue when it was brought to our attention and believe we have managed to resolve the issue with the few clients it affected.

As the current terms do not state any date, Domicile or adherence with the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act, it is considered to be the current active terms up to date, regardless...
 

whatwhat

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Kudos to MyBB for running the article, but it seems that they just posted the same OpenWeb blurb that Keoma always puts up.
 
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