Openweb - Be Cautious.

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Garyvdh said:
LOL... If you care to search my threads, you will see that I have defended WebAfrica and other ISPs as well. This is not just about OpenWeb... it is about poor little consumers who want their noses wiped and their bottoms powdered. Funny how I never seem to have these problems with getting into contact with people at OpenWeb or Telkom or wherever. I never sign anything or pay money over until I am satisfied with the terms of the agreement. It seems to work for me so far.

If I had R5 for every thread where people come on here and whine about "poor service" or "bad treatment" and then when you actually start asking a few questions you start getting the truth.... "well, no I didn't really try that" or "no, I forgot to ask them that".

I wonder how you guys would cope in the real world where you have million dollar contracts that depend on specific wording and it has to be reviewed once, twice, up to five times to make sure you have not left something out... cos I can guarantee you the guy in China is not gonna phone you back and say "Hey, I noticed you left out a word here, do you wanna fix it before I sign this contract"?

I am the guy who is usually looking for the free stuff, the best deal, the fair prices... but yet I also seem to be the one who also doesn't excuse poor customer behaviour.

R1299.00 is a lot of money. I would ask a LOT of questions before I laid out that much money... oh wait... I did. cos I singed up for the same product.
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Same here.
 
hj2k_x said:
*Sigh

Suffice it to say that mine and Gary's posts above address the content of this post fully.
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no it doesnt.

I have already written of the R1300. i am merely making other people aware that in my opinion they should not do business with this company.

but to come back to your point.

if i did pursue this and it did go to court, i am pretty sure that they have to prove that that the terms of agreement was made clear to the client. they cannot say it is on the website, the client could have read it there.

who says i have internet to read the website, who says the client is even ware that the terms are on the website, not many people put their terms on the internet.

I am pretty sure that they would have to prove that they told me, or that i knew that that i was buying bandwidth for only 3 days. and this they would not be able to do.

So alas, i do think i would have a leg to stand on, for as much i must prove that i didnt know, they cannot prove that i did.

they have no signiture on any paper that says otherwise.

even my log in details were sent via mybb PM.
 
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thriel said:
no it doesnt.

I have already written of the R1300. i am merely making other people aware that in my opinion they should not do business with this company.

but to come back to your point.

if i did pursue this and it did go to court, i am pretty sure that they have to prove that that the terms of agreement was made clear to the client. they cannot say it is on the website, the client could have read it there.

who says i have internet to read the website, who says the client is even ware that the terms are on the website, not many people put their terms on the internet.

I am pretty sure that they would have to prove that they told me, or that i knew that that i was buying bandwidth for only 3 days. and this they would not be able to do.

So alas, i do think i would have a leg to stand on, for as much i must prove that i didnt know, they cannot prove that i did.
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Look man, you seem angry. I can understand that. But my point stands. I know you will never go to court over R1300 but I can assure you you would have a hard time of winning, given what you have told us so far.

In terms of bashing Openweb, that is why I posted here. In this case, it is not valid and should not make people wary of Openweb at all.

As I said, the lack of service and feedback IS a concern and IS worth making a fuss over.
 
thriel, you phoned them and set up this contract over the telephone? on the 27th June?

1) How did you hear about the product or read about the product?
2) You paid the R1299 up front which means you were fully aware of the price.
3) At that stage on the telephone did you ask about billing cycles, pro-rata costs? cut-off dates? anything?
4) I normally get two e-mail near month end warning me of the billing cycle. The first one on the 27th warns me to make sure my payment has gone through for the next month in advance.

Dear Garyvdh,

Herewith your OpenWeb Invoice.

Please find your Invoice attached.

Please note, ALL OpenWeb ADSL accounts work per calendar month and NOT 30 days from signup.

If you are on debit order, please ignore this invoice.

Kindly make payment on or before the 29th of this month if you are a current subscriber, and email proof of payment to: [email protected] or Fax: 031 XXX XXXX

Banking Details:

ABSA BANK:
A/C No: XXXXXXXXXX
A/C Type: Cheque
Branch Code: 632005
Payment Reference: Your first and last name

Please note, if we do not receive your proof of payment, we cannot honour your payment.

Have a SUPERB OpenWeb day!

Kind Regards
OpenWeb Accounts Department
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The second e-mail on the 28th is another reminder to make payment...

Dear Garyvdh,

This is a general payment reminder sent to all clients.

IF:

1. You have paid, you may delete this email.
2. You are on debit order, you may delete this email.

If you have not yet paid, kindly forward payment to our account on or before Tuesday, 30 June 2009.

Banking Details:

ABSA BANK:
A/C No: XXXXXXXXX
A/C Type: Cheque
Branch Code: 632005
Payment Reference: Your first and last name

Please note, if we do not receive your proof of payment, we cannot honour your payment.

Have a SUPERB OpenWeb day!

Kind Regards
OpenWeb Accounts Department
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Are you saying you did not get either of those e-mails either?
 
hj2k_x said:
*Sigh

Suffice it to say that mine and Gary's posts above address the content of this post fully.
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Well, maybe I'm just old fashioned. I just happen to think that a service provider has a duty to ensure that the service/product they are selling meets their client's needs.

Bandwidth is not something you buy off a shelf (Axxess pre-paid cards, not withstanding) and the terms and conditions are a vital aspect of these products.

It did not require rocket science on Openweb's part to figure that they were about to rip this client's face off. They could, at the very least, have spelt out the repercussions of what they were transacting. "Sir, you do realise....."

That is all it takes. Especially since, if it was his intention to go ape on an uncapped product for 3 days, they could have sold him the same product at half the price.
 
Gatecrasher said:
Well, maybe I'm just old fashioned. I just happen to think that a service provider has a duty to ensure that the service/product they are selling meets their client's needs.

Bandwidth is not something you buy off a shelf (Axxess pre-paid cards, not withstanding) and the terms and conditions are a vital aspect of these products.

It did not require rocket science on the Openweb's part to figure that they were about to rip this client's face off. They could, at the very least, have spelt out the repercussions of what they were transacting. "Sir, you do realise....."

That is all it takes. Especially since, if it was his intention to go ape on an uncapped product for 3 days, they could have sold him the same product at half the price.
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I hear what you are saying. But in this case, the customer was
a) buying for a company
b) which 'could not survive' being offline for three days
c) and the bandwidth was unlimited.

Therefore, I would not have expected anything else from the ISP in this case.
 
Garyvdh said:
thriel, you phoned them and set up this contract over the telephone? on the 27th June?

1) How did you hear about the product or read about the product?
2) You paid the R1299 up front which means you were fully aware of the price.
3) At that stage on the telephone did you ask about billing cycles, pro-rata costs? cut-off dates? anything?
4) I normally get two e-mail near month end warning me of the billing cycle. The first one on the 27th warns me to make sure my payment has gone through for the next month in advance.



The second e-mail on the 28th is another reminder to make payment...



Are you saying you did not get either of those e-mails either?
Click to expand...

i did get an email, and i replied to it saying that i already paid for july, i also warned them in the email not to try and double bill me, i have proof of that email. i got no reply to that email so i assumed that all was well.

if you read the previous thread we covered that part already. the email also says "If you are on debit order, please ignore this invoice."

and i was told the debit order only goes into effect from the second payment onwards, only they forgot to mention the second payment would be in 3 days time ....

you are reaching for straws now.
 
How much was your usual bandwidth usage? Wouldn't it have made more sense to go for normal account of 10 or 30GB? R1200 for 3 days or access is a lot.
 
thriel said:
i did get an email, and i replied to it saying that i already paid for july, i also warned them in the email not to try and double bill me, i have proof of that email. i got no reply to that email so i assumed that all was well.

if you read the previous thread we covered that part already. the email also says "If you are on debit order, please ignore this invoice."

and i was told the debit order only goes into effect from the second payment onwards, only they forgot to mention the second payment would be in 3 days time ....

you are reaching for straws now.
Click to expand...

But it is not double billing. It is for two months of access.
 
Gatecrasher said:
they could have sold him the same product at half the price.
Click to expand...

so the ISPs should just chop and change and tailor every product they sell to each consumers specific needs? I think not.

They offer a set product and it costs a set amount. He wanted it a.s.a.p. It is all well and good to bitch about it now... but my guess is he must have sounded pretty desperate on the phone last 27th.

As I pointed out above, OpenWeb's terms are stricly on a calendar month and they send out fair warning by e-mail about that... so are most other ISPs. Very few businesses run on an -off calendar basis.

Any court of law will ask "Should the client have reasonably expected that there would be a charge for the portion of the month"... and the answer would be yes. The reasonable man would assume that he is not going to get three days free internet. ISPs are not in the business of handing out free bandwidth... especially not uncapped free bandwidth.

And if there was a reasonable expectation that there would be a charge, then there should also have been a reasonable attempt to find out what that charge is. In this case the court will be satisfied that because the user paid R1299 up front, that he was fully aware of... and willing to pay the charge.
 
thriel said:
i did get an email, and i replied to it saying that i already paid for july, i also warned them in the email not to try and double bill me, i have proof of that email. i got no reply to that email so i assumed that all was well.

if you read the previous thread we covered that part already. the email also says "If you are on debit order, please ignore this invoice."

and i was told the debit order only goes into effect from the second payment onwards, only they forgot to mention the second payment would be in 3 days time ....

you are reaching for straws now.
Click to expand...

so you got the e-mail which clearly says that they operate on a pre-paid basis per calendar month.... and yet you still assumed that the calendar month you were in was for free?

So when you go to the movies at 7:30 pm for the 8 pm show... you also expect to be able to watch the last part of the previous movie as well at no extra charge?

As I said... I also signed up for the product the month before on the 27th.... but I made explicitly sure to tell them not to activate me until the first...

garyvdh ✆ to support

27 Apr

so this account only goes active for next month right? I don't want it to start right away.

thanks
Gary
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Dear xxxxxx,

This is a general payment reminder sent to all clients.

IF:

1. You have paid, you may delete this email.
2. You are on debit order, you may delete this email.

If you have not yet paid, kindly forward payment to our account on or before Tuesday, 30 June 2009.

Banking Details:

ABSA BANK:
A/C No: 4064449626
A/C Type: Cheque
Branch Code: 632005
Payment Reference: Your first and last name

Please note, if we do not receive your proof of payment, we cannot honour your payment.

Have a SUPERB OpenWeb day!

Kind Regards
OpenWeb Accounts Department

----

Invoice #82654
ATTN: xxxxxxx
Total: R 1,299.00
Note: This email will serve as an official invoice for this payment.
Click to expand...

this is the email i recieved, there is no mention of 30 days or monthly calendar even in the reminder email.

it also says :

" IF:

1. You have paid, you may delete this email. "

which i did do.

this is what i sent back :

xxxxx <[email protected]> Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Reply | Reply to all | Forward | Print | Delete | Show original
I just paid the R1299 thursday morning. I hope you guys arent planning
on debiting my account again this month. I am only due to pay again
end of july 2009.
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hmmmm, still think i didnt get ripped off ?

like i said, you are reaching for straws.
 
Garyvdh said:
so the ISPs should just chop and change and tailor every product they sell to each consumers specific needs? I think not.

They offer a set product and it costs a set amount. He wanted it a.s.a.p. It is all well and good to bitch about it now... but my guess is he must have sounded pretty desperate on the phone last 27th.

As I pointed out above, OpenWeb's terms are stricly on a calendar month and they send out fair warning by e-mail about that... so are most other ISPs. Very few businesses run on an -off calendar basis.

Any court of law will ask "Should the client have reasonably expected that there would be a charge for the portion of the month"... and the answer would be yes. The reasonable man would assume that he is not going to get three days free internet. ISPs are not in the business of handing out free bandwidth... especially not uncapped free bandwidth.

And if there was a reasonable expectation that there would be a charge, then there should also have been a reasonable attempt to find out what that charge is. In this case the court will be satisfied that because the user paid R1299 up front, that he was fully aware of... and willing to pay the charge.
Click to expand...
That is key.
 
thriel said:
this is the email i recieved, there is no mention of 30 days or monthly calendar even in the reminder email.

it also says :

" IF:

1. You have paid, you may delete this email. "

which i did do.

this is what i sent back :



hmmmm, still think i didnt get ripped off ?
Click to expand...

Yes, they didn't debit your account again. They debited it for July.
 
thriel said:
this is the email i recieved, there is no mention of 30 days or monthly calendar even in the reminder email.

hmmmm, still think i didnt get ripped off ?

like i said, you are reaching for straws.
Click to expand...

That is the second e-mail... you probably signed up too late to receive the first e-mail... but that is not their problem... it is yours. You should familiarise yourself with the products you are buying.... or don't buy them.
 
hj2k_x said:
Yes, they didn't debit your account again. They debited it for July.
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Ja, the first debit was for June, the second was for July. I don't see the problem here. You were provided with service for June... for which you paid. You didn't pay for July... and this is why you were cut off (on the 3rd... giving you three more free days of internet by the way... for which have not yet paid).
 
Garyvdh said:
That is the second e-mail... you probably signed up too late to receive the first e-mail... but that is not their problem... it is yours. You should familiarise yourself with the products you are buying.... or don't buy them.
Click to expand...

lol. now you are delusional.

first you ascuse me of not reading mails properly, that its all in the mails. then you move to the fact that i probly signed up after the email was sent so its my responsibility to check for things that i dont even know exist.

you are becoming amusing ...

isnt it nice how all the blame falls onto the client, and openweb shares no responisibility for being at fault at all.
 
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