Openweb, why you do a client so?

[aquadog]

Reseller n.
To sell (a product or service) to the public or to an end user, especially as an authorized dealer.



First of all, let me say that I don't hold a grudge against Openweb. I've been using them for the past 4 or so months and apart from the horrid control panel, I haven't had an issue with them...

until now.

For the months leading up to October I had bought a 5GB account and close to the end of the month I'd run out of bandwidth and buy another 2GB or 3GB account to carry me across. For October, however, I bought a 7GB account to save me the hassle of having to buy another account close to month’s end.

Around the 20th October or so I noticed I couldn't browse international websites anymore so I logged into the IS control panel to check my statistics and sure as **** it said I was capped and I only had local access. Of course I went back to the Openweb control panel and bought another 3GB account.

After some deliberation I couldn't believe that I had used up 7GB already and went back to my IS stats page and saw that I had indeed been capped on 5GB and not 7GB, which is what I paid for.

Clearly, a mistake had been made. I emailed Openweb tech support immediately and informed them of the situation and asked for a refund for the 3GB account, which, by anyone’s expectation, should be granted as I had purchased it based on incorrect information provided to me.

Keoma replied to my email and said he could not refund me because, and I quote, “we cannot provide a refund for IS / Telkoms mistake, otherwise we honestly would no longer be in business.”

I told him that as an IS reseller, he should take responsibility for their mistakes as this is what being a reseller entails. I explained it to him in these terms:

“As a reseller, you have to take responsibility for your provider's services. If I go into a store and buy a Kenwood product that turns out to be defective, I can take it back to the store for a refund, or at least for credit on my account. It is up to the store to take it up with Kenwood thereafter. Am I wrong in expecting the same from anyone else who sells me a product?”

I have not heard back from him since Friday, which is when I sent the last email.

In all honesty guys, do you think I should get a refund for the 3GB account or not?

 

[zll]

If what you say is true then that's just shoddy business practice, but I think we should wait and see what Openweb have to say. I personally have had great service from them in the past, even when it came to solving things they weren't responsible for.

 

[talon]

They need to refund you, if what you say is true.

 

[Equinox]

I've just had this debate with some folks on IRC and my opinion is obviously very different. Still:

4.8 The User accordingly indemnifies OpenISP CC against all claims that may arise as a result of OpenISP CC being unable to make its service available to the User under the circumstances described in this clause.

If you buy a Kenwood toaster and it is faulty/doesn't give you all of the features promised, you don't buy another Kenwood toaster and *then* take the original one back for repair.

If you buy a car and it hasn't got all of the features you ordered/paid for, you don't go out and buy a new car and *then* take the original one back and demand a refund?

If you go to a restaurant and order a 500g steak and a 300g steak comes (with a 300g label on it), you don't order a new 300g steak and *then* complain that the 500g steak order was wrong.

Or am I wrong?

 

[bekdik]

while it may be legally correct to hide behind T&C's, it probably isn't a good way of increasing ones turnover ...

 

[Equinox]

Edit: Sure, I come from the completely opposite side of the coin and you folk aren't exactly known for being that compassionate towards ISPs (or their ex-employees for that matter ), but I feel that the ISP is liable for the mistakes they made. Not the mistakes the user made thereafter.

I signed up for a WebAfrica prepaid account for my new business the other day. Credit card authed...the works. I log into my control panel, nothing's there. So I phoned WebAfrica and said "I've been through the process, its not showing up...". They told me it might take a few minutes to show up and their billing system has issues. So, 10 minutes later, my impatience got the better of me and I signed up for another one on my other credit card. Then a few hours later, BOTH accounts were on my client panel and I'd paid twice. Now I accept that the first account should've been "created instantly" (as was promised), but I also accept that had I been patient and done as I was told, I wouldn't have paid for the second one. I made a mistake. They've rectified the mistake _they_ made and I'll have to deal with the one I made.

 

[aquadog]

If I was initially aware of the fact that I was capped at 5GB and not 7GB then of course I would not have bought the additional 3GB account. Unfortunately when I logged into the CP and saw CAPPED I didn't bother looking at my usage because if it says capped then surely I used up all my allotted bandwidth.

Another point to consider is that it was at night when I discovered this problem, so no support, and I needed international bandwidth at that time.

I realise what you are saying but the fact of the matter is that I didn't order another steak while eating the 500g one, the 500g one never arrived at all.

 

[aquadog]

I signed up for a WebAfrica prepaid account for my new business the other day. Credit card authed...the works. I log into my control panel, nothing's there. So I phoned WebAfrica and said "I've been through the process, its not showing up...". They told me it might take a few minutes to show up and their billing system has issues. So, 10 minutes later, my impatience got the better of me and I signed up for another one on my other credit card. Then a few hours later, BOTH accounts were on my client panel and I'd paid twice. Now I accept that the first account should've been "created instantly" (as was promised), but I also accept that had I been patient and done as I was told, I wouldn't have paid for the second one. I made a mistake. They've rectified the mistake _they_ made and I'll have to deal with the one I made.

I'm sorry but this is a completely different matter and not comparable to the one in this thread at all.

 

[PsyWulf]

If I was initially aware of the fact that I was capped at 5GB and not 7GB then of course I would not have bought the additional 3GB account. Unfortunately when I logged into the CP and saw CAPPED I didn't bother looking at my usage because if it says capped then surely I used up all my allotted bandwidth.

Another point to consider is that it was at night when I discovered this problem, so no support, and I needed international bandwidth at that time.

I realise what you are saying but the fact of the matter is that I didn't order another steak while eating the 500g one, the 500g one never arrived at all.

You did request an extra 3 gigs so that one is down to you. However the original account Cap not being changed lies between IS and Openweb. If openweb did indeed process the change then IS owes you the spare bandwidth you paid for

 

[aquadog]

You did request an extra 3 gigs so that one is down to you. However the original account Cap not being changed lies between IS and Openweb. If openweb did indeed process the change then IS owes you the spare bandwidth you paid for

I bought another 3GB account based on the fact that the CP said I was capped. I bought the account based on lies.

The cap not being used does indeed lie between openweb and IS but I spent money based on wrong information provided to me by IS and Openweb.

I don't see how this is my fault.

 

[Equinox]

I'm sorry but this is a completely different matter and not comparable to the one in this thread at all.

Of course it is? Its another instance of a user making a "mistake" (purchasing another product) as a result of the ISP making a mistake. Sure, the ISP is liable for the mistake _they_ made, but extending their "culpability" to include mistakes made by the user thereafter, is a tad unfair?

 

[aquadog]

Of course it is? Its another instance of a user making a "mistake" (purchasing another product) as a result of the ISP making a mistake. Sure, the ISP is liable for the mistake _they_ made, but extending their "culpability" to include mistakes made by the user thereafter, is a tad unfair?

You bought an extra account after they told you that you should be patient, the account will be added. Someone told you that there was issues and it will be taken care of. You made a mistake based on information they gave you that was correct.

I bought the account based on their system telling me I was CAPPED. I made a mistake based on information that was incorrect.

Do you honestly not see the difference here?

 

[killadoob]

Dude i reckon you maybe let this go and move companies, seems really unfair and very poor of them not to refund you.

Take the hit and move on because i doubt you are going to get anywhere, this is not your fault and im surprized this attitude has been taken to be honest.

 

[PsyWulf]

I bought another 3GB account based on the fact that the CP said I was capped. I bought the account based on lies.

The cap not being used does indeed lie between openweb and IS but I spent money based on wrong information provided to me by IS and Openweb.

I don't see how this is my fault.

If you'd go further and read the number you'd see you we're capped for the wrong amount,user error snowballing

So I still have sympathy for the account not being updated to the right new cap - however you buying more bw ontop of it for not reading - your baby

 

[Murmaider]

I've just had this debate with some folks on IRC and my opinion is obviously very different. Still:



If you buy a Kenwood toaster and it is faulty/doesn't give you all of the features promised, you don't buy another Kenwood toaster and *then* take the original one back for repair.

If you buy a car and it hasn't got all of the features you ordered/paid for, you don't go out and buy a new car and *then* take the original one back and demand a refund?

If you go to a restaurant and order a 500g steak and a 300g steak comes (with a 300g label on it), you don't order a new 300g steak and *then* complain that the 500g steak order was wrong.

Or am I wrong?

Your logic is flawed. He has not bought a physical product which can be inspected BEFORE it is paid for. He has purchased a service, which was paid for in advance. Is it his problem that openweb BILLED him for a 7GB, but they in fact did not upgrade his account from the original 5GB?
Is it wrong of him to assume that his account was upgraded to a 7GB, or should he have questioned the competency of openweb and double checked to make sure they did their job properly?

Regardless of whether or not he viewed his usage before purchasing additional bandwidth, the fact still remains that due to the lack of his account being upgraded correctly, he was wrongly capped. It’s not up to the customer to make sure a company is doing their job properly.

Based on the openweb statement “we cannot provide a refund for IS / Telkom’s mistake, otherwise we honestly would no longer be in business.”

Tells me that openweb makes its money based on taking customers money and then blaming Telkom or IS. In all honesty, I very much doubt it was a Telkom or IS issue, I am more inclined to believe that openweb did not upgrade this users account with IS and is now trying to save face. It’s much easier for a reseller to blame their provider than to account for their own actions or lack there of.

 

[aquadog]

If you'd go further and read the number you'd see you we're capped for the wrong amount,user error snowballing

So I still have sympathy for the account not being updated to the right new cap - however you buying more bw ontop of it for not reading - your baby

Why, good sir, do I need to double check their system when there is a BIG GREEN BAR telling me I am capped?

What if I had forgotten that it was indeed a 7GB account and I saw that the usage was 5GB and didn't think twice about it? Would that have made it any more acceptable?

Seems to me that this is a win/win scenario for Openweb.

 

[PsyWulf]

Why, good sir, do I need to double check their system when there is a BIG GREEN BAR telling me I am capped?

What if I had forgotten that it was indeed a 7GB account and I saw that the usage was 5GB and didn't think twice about it? Would that have made it any more acceptable?

Seems to me that this is a win/win scenario for Openweb.

Sorry but I can't imagine just blindly staring at a % bar and then blundering ahead and spending my money but maybe i'm just stingy and like to be sure I used as much as I did

If you had forgotten and bought a topup the onus still rests with you - you clicked to buy the 3gigs extra without checking


If i'm on contract cell with a "limit" of R200,I phone my overseas friends for hours on end and end of the month my bill comes in at R2k. Fine the limiter should have worked,but I still made the phonecalls didn't I?

Usage services rest on the user to check and double check and triple check

 

[aquadog]

Dude i reckon you maybe let this go and move companies, seems really unfair and very poor of them not to refund you.

Take the hit and move on because i doubt you are going to get anywhere, this is not your fault and im surprized this attitude has been taken to be honest.

Good to see that there are at least a few clear thinking people on this board who are able to see through the bull****.

Time to pack the bags I guess.

 

[Equinox]

I bought the account based on their system telling me I was CAPPED. I made a mistake based on information that was incorrect.

Do you honestly not see the difference here?

Well, clearly its not the exact same situation. But it is definitely comparable. Its a similar instance of a user making a mistake based on an ISPs mistake. But as PsyWulf said, the ISP has to be limited in its liability due to "user error snowballing".

Still, I suppose in the interest of good publicity, it would be worthwhile for OpenWeb to try and resolve the issue. Although it sometimes seems to me that it doesn't matter whether the user is in the right or the wrong...its more about who can post on MyADSL the fastest

 

[aquadog]

Sorry but I can't imagine just blindly staring at a % bar and then blundering ahead and spending my money but maybe i'm just stingy and like to be sure I used as much as I did

If you had forgotten and bought a topup the onus still rests with you - you clicked to buy the 3gigs extra without checking


If i'm on contract cell with a "limit" of R200,I phone my overseas friends for hours on end and end of the month my bill comes in at R2k. Fine the limiter should have worked,but I still made the phonecalls didn't I?

Usage services rest on the user to check and double check and triple check

There is no % bar. Have you ever seen an IS control panel? I'm guessing not. Please refrain from posting in the future.