Original Deeds required for property transfer?

Quixotic

Quixotic

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I have a copy of the Deeds. This was sent to me by the Deeds Office. It clearly shows the ownership. I cannot find the original given to me at the time convayancing was done >10 years ago. Can I still sell without the expense of creating a new original Deeds given that the correct ownership record is at the Deeds Office?
 
Is there a mortgage/bond still registered against the property?

If so, the original title deeds are probably held by the bank.
 
no bond but is the account still open if so with the bank,alternatively deeds office for a copy or ask for original i think or consult attorneys if its time consuming to go their Deeds office
 
vigras rojara said:
Is there a mortgage/bond still registered against the property?

If so, the original title deeds are probably held by the bank.
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storms1 said:
no bond but is the account still open if so with the bank,alternatively deeds office for a copy or ask for original i think or consult attorneys if its time consuming to go their Deeds office
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Banks will only send you the original deed if you have no bond (as in you've closed the account), because they're no longer under any obligation to keep it...
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Banks will only send you the original deed if you have no bond (as in you've closed the account), because they're no longer under any obligation to keep it...
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yes i gather that , i wanted to know if paid up bond but still open , entirely different issue then .thanks
 
storms1 said:
yes i gather that , i wanted to know if paid up bond but still open , entirely different issue then .thanks
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If the bond is still "open", the bank retains the title deeds.

If you want the bond cancelled, the bank confirms that there's a zero balance and consents to the bond being cancelled. Attorneys attend to this and the title deeds can then be returned to the owner.
 
I was in this exact same position.

The transfer was delayed by 7 months.

You need the original.

In my case, the seller asked for the deed, and went awol at the deeds office
 
vigras rojara said:
If the bond is still "open", the bank retains the title deeds.

If you want the bond cancelled, the bank confirms that there's a zero balance and consents to the bond being cancelled. Attorneys attend to this and the title deeds can then be returned to the owner.
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This is the correct answer.
 
storms1 said:
no bond but is the account still open if so with the bank,alternatively deeds office for a copy or ask for original i think or consult attorneys if its time consuming to go their Deeds office
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There was never a bond
 
This is the AI but I think it is wrong (I wish it wasn't as it seems pointless obtaining another original only to be replaced by the Buyers):

Regulation 68(1) of the Deeds Act pertains to the situation where the original Title Deed is lost. It allows for the registration of a property transfer even if the original deed is not available, provided certain conditions are met.

Here’s how it applies to your situation:
  1. Affidavit: You may need to provide an affidavit stating that the original Title Deed is lost.
  2. Deeds Office Verification: The Deeds Office will verify the details of your ownership through their records.
  3. Issuance of a New Title Deed: If everything is in order, the Deeds Office can issue a new Title Deed in the buyer's name once the transfer is registered.
So, yes, if you comply with the requirements set out in Regulation 68(1), it will facilitate the transfer process even without the original Title Deed. It’s advisable to consult with a conveyancer to ensure all legal requirements are met properly.
 
I'm not a credible authority on the matter - i.e. Don't quote me on this.

I don't think you can go through with selling and the whole legal conveyance thing without the embossed, stamped, signed, etc document from the deeds office. So you'd have to go through the whole thing to get a document like that, I think. That is. If that's not already what you have. I don't think a new valid deed would qualify as an "original", but it would qualify as the valid deed, of course. There can be only one valid document. But, maybe I'm wrong. For all I know they can make a brand new "original".

In a nutshell: Embossed deed document; or no play (afaik)

Edit: I looked it up. A new valid document would be called a "Certified Copy" or "VA Copy" (and yeah, it'll be embossed)
 
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Quixotic said:
This is the AI but I think it is wrong (I wish it wasn't as it seems pointless obtaining another original only to be replaced by the Buyers):
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I didn't read it that way? (3) says exactly what you think it should be, a new title deed will be issued in the name of the buyer upon registration...
 
Like I said, i was in this boat. The title deed got lost

The attorneys had to advertise it in news papers for 2 months, to claim its actually lost.

Then a new one is issued. It was a 6 months exercise!
 
Quixotic said:
I have a copy of the Deeds. This was sent to me by the Deeds Office. It clearly shows the ownership. I cannot find the original given to me at the time convayancing was done >10 years ago. Can I still sell without the expense of creating a new original Deeds given that the correct ownership record is at the Deeds Office?
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I too was in this exact situation, there was never any bond and we weren't careful to keep the title deed in a safe place 🙈. Q4 of 2018 is when the property was being sold.

I had a copy and was fairly sure it wouldn't pass for the original, but I also wasn't sure if the original would be needed because as you say it seems unnecessary.

The transfer attorney's paralegal advised, "Yes, unfortunately if you cannot locate the original title deed we will need to draft a 68(1) Application for you to sign to obtain a certified copy of the deed from the Deeds Office. This will entail a cost of R1,600 plus VAT plus the deeds office fee of R518.00."

Perhaps it differs from province to province but getting the copy issued only delayed the process by about 2 weeks, this is for a property in the Western Cape (down the garden route) it was the Cape Town deeds office involved if I am not mistaken. If I had let the attorneys know that I definitely did not have the original sooner then quite possibly there would have been no delay. I only realised that I definitely needed the original title deed when I was asked to take it with when going to sign the transfer documents.

In any event find out what your transferring attorneys have to say? I think cost of replacement copies have gone up substantially in recent years but whatever the cost it, it's likely a non-negotiable and will cost you more money (by delaying you receiving the proceeds from the sale) if the sale is delayed due to a missing title deed.
 
Yes, you can still sell. The Deeds Office record is the one that legally counts in South Africa. The original copy you got at the time of transfer isn’t necessary to proceed with the sale. The conveyancer will work directly with the official record from the Deeds Office
 
RogueTr00per said:
I too was in this exact situation, there was never any bond and we weren't careful to keep the title deed in a safe place 🙈. Q4 of 2018 is when the property was being sold.

I had a copy and was fairly sure it wouldn't pass for the original, but I also wasn't sure if the original would be needed because as you say it seems unnecessary.

The transfer attorney's paralegal advised, "Yes, unfortunately if you cannot locate the original title deed we will need to draft a 68(1) Application for you to sign to obtain a certified copy of the deed from the Deeds Office. This will entail a cost of R1,600 plus VAT plus the deeds office fee of R518.00."

Perhaps it differs from province to province but getting the copy issued only delayed the process by about 2 weeks, this is for a property in the Western Cape (down the garden route) it was the Cape Town deeds office involved if I am not mistaken. If I had let the attorneys know that I definitely did not have the original sooner then quite possibly there would have been no delay. I only realised that I definitely needed the original title deed when I was asked to take it with when going to sign the transfer documents.

In any event find out what your transferring attorneys have to say? I think cost of replacement copies have gone up substantially in recent years but whatever the cost it, it's likely a non-negotiable and will cost you more money (by delaying you receiving the proceeds from the sale) if the sale is delayed due to a missing title deed.
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One quote I have is R6,100. Does seem like a pointless expense when it will be instantly discarded and replaced by the buyers deed which can be produced from the information held at the Deeds Office.
 
The Trutherizer said:
Anyway. I expect any conveyance attorney could tell you exactly what you need to do in no time.
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I would like to believe this and not have to seek a second (or another) opinion but over many certain matters they just do things or interpret things the way it has always been done and not necessarily how it should really be or how it now is.
 
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