Ouch! JZ snubs Thabo

In all honesty nobody on this forum can tell me without a shadow of doubt that he is guilty can they?

What is he guilty of, what proof did anyone have on Zuma? please the guys who claim he guilty let us in who have no idea what you know and the prosecution had on him. He went to trial over the rape case and got off purely because that was a setup. I still believe someone tried to nail Zuma before he became president and failed very badly.

So please guys come forth with your info regarding the case and they had on him. Your all shouting guilty but why, how much money did he take? Who paid him the money? come on now let's see if your all just shouting guilty without a clue or if for once you actually have a clue and are shouting guilty based on evidence. Tim explain to me what zuma is guilty of and who else is involved because you seem to know what the prosecution has on him.
 
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killadoob said:
In all honesty nobody on this forum can tell me without a shadow of doubt that he is guilty can they?

What is he guilty of, what proof did anyone have on Zuma? please the guys who claim he guilty let us in who have no idea what you know and the prosecution had on him. He went to trial over the rape case and got off purely because that was a setup. I still believe someone tried to nail Zuma before he became president and failed very badly.

So please guys come forth with your info regarding the case and they had on him. Your all shouting guilty but why, how much money did he take? Who paid him the money? come on now let's see if your all just shouting guilty without a clue or if for once you actually have a clue and are shouting guilty based on evidence. Tim explain to me what zuma is guilty of and who else is involved because you seem to know what the prosecution has on him.
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Dude, in my opinion he is guilty. My opinion, I base it on previous standards set by your current government and their lax attitudes towards criminals in general and their even laxer (is that a word) attitude to people who are supposed to serve the country. A quick look at the MP's etc will confirm that for you. There are too many things that don't add up in that case and it just confirms my opinion.

If one day it's proved that he is indeed innocent (of course there is no obligation for anyone to do so but it would be real nice) then I will change my opinion. Until that day comes I think he's guilty as charged. However that day will never come, like everything else that is anywhere near "dodge" it will be swept under the carpet.

It's like you may think Man Utd is the best team in the world and I don't. If I ask you to prove it could you? No realistically you can't prove it, you may insert facts to indicate why you think they're the best and I may concede the point (I won't because I hate Man Utd :D) However if some one can without a shadow of a doubt prove that they are the best I'll change my mind, until then I'll keep thinking they're the luckiest, most unsporting team in the world (Meeeeeeooooowwww :D)


EDIT: The fact is mate as much as you want us to prove he's guilty, can some one without a shadow of a doubt find him innocent? Corrupt NPA aside?
 
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No but you guys have no idea about anything regarding the case other than he is guilty, you don't care what the charges are how weak they are nothing, guilty is your verdict without knowing bugger all about the case.

I am no supporter of zuma or the anc but i cannot go around calling someone guilty of something that i have no idea about. If your happy to shout guilty without knowing anything about the case then thats fine but personally i like to know i am calling someone something based on facts and evidence and not here say.

United you can go look at what they have achieved, premier league 3 years in a row, toughest league in the world, champions league final in the last 2 years, there is something to base the "fact" that united may be the best. With zuma you have nothing like that all you have is what you think and nothing based on facts. It would be like saying Wigan are the best in the world without looking at what they done ever and just saying it because you think it :p
 
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killadoob said:
In all honesty nobody on this forum can tell me without a shadow of doubt that he is guilty can they?

What is he guilty of, what proof did anyone have on Zuma? please the guys who claim he guilty let us in who have no idea what you know and the prosecution had on him. He went to trial over the rape case and got off purely because that was a setup. I still believe someone tried to nail Zuma before he became president and failed very badly.
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Even if he wasn't guilty of rape, he has no respect for women. Great man that :rolleyes:

So please guys come forth with your info regarding the case and they had on him. Your all shouting guilty but why, how much money did he take? Who paid him the money? come on now let's see if your all just shouting guilty without a clue or if for once you actually have a clue and are shouting guilty based on evidence. Tim explain to me what zuma is guilty of and who else is involved because you seem to know what the prosecution has on him.
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Er... its a bribe. That involves two parties. One was convicted, the other got lucky.

What you're proposing is similar to a murder having occurred, yet the killer does not exist. Smoking gun, and all I'm afraid.

To answer your questions:

a) Zuma is guilty of fraud and corruption
b) Shubeer Shaik is involved
c) I believe it was over R4million that he took as a "loan"
d) Once again Shubeer Shaik paid him the money, but this has already been proven in a court of law, has it not?

Any other questions?
 
killadoob said:
United you can go look at what they have achieved, premier league 3 years in a row, toughest league in the world, champions league final in the last 2 years, there is something to base the "fact" that united may be the best. With zuma you have nothing like that all you have is what you think and nothing based on facts. It would be like saying Wigan are the best in the world without looking at what they done ever and just saying it because you think it :p
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Ah, but Barcelona have more awards, Liverpool have more European titles, Real has more noteworthy trophies and AC Milan have ruled for much longer periods. So, who is the best team in the world? All opinion.

Oh, and once again it has been proven that Jacob Zuma was bribed in a court of law.
 
timgaul said:
Even if he wasn't guilty of rape, he has no respect for women. Great man that :rolleyes:



Er... its a bribe. That involves two parties. One was convicted, the other got lucky.

What you're proposing is similar to a murder having occurred, yet the killer does not exist. Smoking gun, and all I'm afraid.

To answer your questions:

a) Zuma is guilty of fraud and corruption
b) Shubeer Shaik is involved
c) I believe it was over R4million that he took as a "loan"
d) Once again Shubeer Shaik paid him the money, but this has already been proven in a court of law, has it not?

Any other questions?
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And even corrupt Zuma does not dispute that.
 
killadoob said:
No but you guys have no idea about anything regarding the case other than he is guilty, you don't care what the charges are how weak they are nothing, guilty is your verdict without knowing bugger all about the case.

I am no supporter of zuma or the anc but i cannot go around calling someone guilty of something that i have no idea about. If your happy to shout guilty without knowing anything about the case then thats fine but personally i like to know i am calling someone something based on facts and evidence and not here say.

United you can go look at what they have achieved, premier league 3 years in a row, toughest league in the world, champions league final in the last 2 years, there is something to base the "fact" that united may be the best. With zuma you have nothing like that all you have is what you think and nothing based on facts. It would be like saying Wigan are the best in the world without looking at what they done ever and just saying it because you think it :p
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Okay let's put it another way. Hypothetically: Your daughters best friend is raped, the young lad who allegedly raped this girl gets found innocent because of a technicality, however all indications are that he did (she has bruises etc and she is severely traumatised ad infinitum) Based on your opinion above you would allow your daughter to go out with this guy?

Like I said just an analogy... It's this reasoning that I use to formulate my opinion.
 
Please tell us, Mr Z, what you know about a cheque for $22m apparently given to Thabo Mbeki by Greek tycoon and arms deal middle man Tony Georgiades. We hear Mbeki gave most of it to the ANC, and some even suggest he may have given some of it to you?

They hear mbeki gave it to the anc, why was he not investigated to make sure he was not involved like zuma?

Why has mbeki never gone to trial for corruption? If i go by what you okes say, he is as guilty as zuma yet what happened? Why is Zuma being hunted while mbeki walks away with no charges.

I understand your point retro, i just feel someone was out to nail zuma before he could become president in anyway possible. He got through all it somehow and maybe it was because they knew if he was found guilty the zulu's would wage war or something, again i am not sure though.
 
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killadoob said:
Please tell us, Mr Z, what you know about a cheque for $22m apparently given to Thabo Mbeki by Greek tycoon and arms deal middle man Tony Georgiades. We hear Mbeki gave most of it to the ANC, and some even suggest he may have given some of it to you?

Why has mbeki never gone to trial for corruption? If i go by what you okes he is as guilty as zuma yet what happened? Why is Zuma being hunted while mbeki walks away with no charges.
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Dude the difference is Mbeki isn't your president anymore. He's just as guilty in fact I'd say a large glob of the ANC leadership in any normal country would be sitting in chooky as criminals, or at the bare minimum be banned from taking part in politics
 
Then why is Zuma is seemly being targeted above everyone else who is corrupt?

Why is zuma the only they are trying to nail so hard? It makes no sense as to why we HEAR mbeki was involved but we investigate the crap out zuma because we also heard he was involved. Sounds more and more like there are people out to get him more than anything else. I ask myself why?

Will he change the way ANC do business in the country for good of it's people? Could be.
Is it because he will become the new bob of Africa? Could be
 
RetroBok said:
Dude the difference is Mbeki isn't your president anymore. He's just as guilty in fact I'd say a large glob of the ANC leadership in any normal country would be sitting in chooky as criminals, or at the bare minimum be banned from taking part in politics
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Those grave allegations first surfaced when TM was the president. But none of the watchdogs picked up that scent. Instead they carried on barking up the wrong Zuma tree...
 
RetroBok said:
Dude the difference is Mbeki isn't your president anymore. He's just as guilty in fact I'd say a large glob of the ANC leadership in any normal country would be sitting in chooky as criminals, or at the bare minimum be banned from taking part in politics
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@Jungleboy

Dude just thought I'd let you know your bold buttons not working 100% :D
If I was a member on this forum at that time I'd be saying the exact same thing about Mbeki as I am Zuma :D
 
killadoob said:
Then why is Zuma is seemly being targeted above everyone else who is corrupt?

Why is zuma the only they are trying to nail so hard? It makes no sense as to why we HEAR mbeki was involved but we investigate the crap out zuma because we also heard he was involved. Sounds more and more like there are people out to get him more than anything else. I ask myself why?

Will he change the way ANC do business in the country for good of it's people? Could be.
Is it because he will become the new bob of Africa? Could be
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The DA is attempting to have the entire scandal investigated. There would be countless names exposed. But since the ANC controls the corruption that is Parliament, it is an exercise in futility.
 
Yup but the DA is not behind the Zuma hunt, members of the ANC must be or ex members must have been. Someone close or in the ANC wanted him out the running.

We will see why in the future i guess.
 
killadoob said:
Yup but the DA is not behind the Zuma hunt, members of the ANC must be or ex members must have been. Someone close or in the ANC wanted him out the running.

We will see why in the future i guess.
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Probably quite true. The DA isn't interested in a witch hunt but rather blowing the entire scandal (current and ex-Presidents and MPs alike) wide open. I just don't think it'll ever happen.
 
Actually he did mention Mbeki in his speech and thanked him for being a true statesmen and leading the country into economic growth. He then went on to thank Mothanthe.
 
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