Pain / Doctors / General rant

[mooks]

So, I've had some niggles with my hands and arms in the past few months but nothing really major. I am also busy renovating a new flat and doing a lot of the manual labour myself.

I spent most of Saturday painting walls and when I got into bed that night, I figured the pain and fatigue in my 1 shoulder and both arms was just stress from physical labour. I then woke up about 4-5hrs later with a fever and pain emanating from deep in the bone. I took some ibuprofen and paracetamol and tried to get back to sleep. By 9am that morning I was basically 'paralysed' (not really, but moving my limbs was simply not an option) from muscle stiffness, pain and fever. I eventually landed up in the local ER where the doctor said it could be some kind of rheumatic/arthritic flare up. They have put me on some arthritis meds and I'm going for further tests this week.

This is the 2nd time in 6mnths that a doc has said something like this, but the more I read up on arthritis, the less I think it is applicable here.

Anyone here have any experience with bone pain? Are the doctors just being lazy and jumping to the obvious arthritic conclusion? Should I keep taking the meds even though they make me feel ridiculously woozey or should I wait for a more informed opinion?

It really bugs me that most doctors will only let you get half way through a sentence and then decide that they already know what the deal is. "Oh, swollen joints and bone pain? Must be arthritis". Don't bother to ask me about regularity of pain or pain triggers or anything.... Stupid Knowitalls.

 

[Azbubu]

Get a 2nd opinion.

 

[ttygt]

Yes, get paid labour.
Painting walls is more of an expert job than you may think.
Sometimes you need to add chemicals to reduce the mixture, to achieve better results.

Always use rollers, and plastic sheets. Extensions will ease the problem of ceilings.

Good luck with your renovations

(ps, remember to paint the skirting's as well, or just use tiles, rather than wood!)

 

[Azbubu]

In Australia you need a permit to paint.

 

[mooks]

Yes, get paid labour.
Painting walls is more of an expert job than you may think.
Sometimes you need to add chemicals to reduce the mixture, to achieve better results.

Always use rollers, and plastic sheets. Extensions will ease the problem of ceilings.

Good luck with your renovations

(ps, remember to paint the skirting's as well, or just use tiles, rather than wood!)

Lol. I wasn't ranting about the painting (which went quite well, despite my lack of expertise or experience in the field), rather about the impatience and assumptions of Dr's.

 

[mooks]

In Australia you need a permit to paint.

Stop talking about painting

 

[RiaX]

Pain is a terrible symptom to deal with. People have pain like they going to die so its basically ignored as mild to moderate.

The doctor isnt ignoring you or isnt being a know it all, he just saving the effort. How about wait for the test results to come back and take it from there? medicine is investigative work the more evidence the easier to get to the problem and address it.

lolol this one time I was working in this pharmacy (as a locum) and this patient came in complaining of severe back pain. So I saw he was full of it because he didnt want to go to the ER, doctor (if it really was THAT bad no one would bother going to a pharmacy first). So I offered simple OTC painkillers to which he said those never work, then I said ok I got a special formulation of diclofenac (cataflam) and I told him the price and he literally said his back is fine and stopped performing rofl. It was only R2.50 a sachet >.< oh well I cured him free of charge

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

I also have occasional joint pain and doctors are unable to determine if this is from running or rheumatic/arthritic. Blood tests show no issue and no-one is able to make a proper diagnosis either. I wish a real Dr. House would exist - GPs have generally no clue and specialists will base their decisions on blood tests or x-rays and if those show nothing you are pretty much screwed. Perhaps our expectations are too high, but it almost feels that if your body does not have an open wound or broken bone, medical practitioners will almost never be able to help you ;-)

 

[RiaX]

Dr. House

is the worst doctor possible. Firstly to get your diagnosis wrong 3 times and to initate 3 wrong sets of treatment is a horrifying thought.

no-one is able to make a proper diagnosis

Unfortunately this is the limitation of real medicine, if no one can solve it you on your own.

specialists will base their decisions on blood tests or x-rays and if those show nothing you are pretty much screwed.

Yes because unlike Dr house real practioners dont pull things out of their rear end. If simple treatment fails and advanced diagnostics is clear then the situation is bad.

expectations are too high, but it almost feels that if your body does not have an open wound or broken bone, medical practitioners will almost never be able to help you

not really - pain is a symptom we dont treat pain we treat the scource of pain.

Anyways for your case if your legs are the issue look into microfactures. I would say its most likely a tissue problem but microfractures are a common cause of severe pain in people who run

 

[TheMightyQuin]

Stop talking about painting

Stop painting all doctors with the same brush....

 

[blunomore]

Where in the Netherlands do you live mooks ?

 

[Nanfeishen]

It really bugs me that most doctors will only let you get half way through a sentence and then decide that they already know what the deal is. "Oh, swollen joints and bone pain? Must be arthritis". Don't bother to ask me about regularity of pain or pain triggers or anything.... Stupid Knowitalls.

Did any of the Docs mention Tendinitis ? Bursitis ? possibly leading to or linked to Rotator Cuff problems ?

If not, maybe consider investigating that area.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Yes because unlike Dr house real practioners dont pull things out of their rear end. If simple treatment fails and advanced diagnostics is clear then the situation is bad.

I agree with you - medical issues are complex. I know I am taking a too simplistic look at things. At least from the outside it appears to me that medicine is not progressing as fast as for example technology. I would have expected that medicine would see a similar leap, yet people still die from some very basic medical conditions and doctors seem to not have the answers.

I think for me a GP most be the dullest job in the medical field - 80% of cases must be flu-related and others are will probably just result in a antibiotics/interflora prescription or lead to a referral to a specialist. It's nowadays more effective for simple things to describe symptoms to a pharmacist and you save yourself the GP fees.

 

[Space_Chief]

You're most likely to get the diagnosis from a proper history. That docs don't ask for one, is a poor show but is influenced by the time they have - which is not much. Recently saw a case of common duct stones misdiagnosed as a hepatitis, but history pointed to stone disease as high on the differential list. Despite that because of an unrelated factor, everyone jumped to a conclusion which was not there. End result was good though, thankfully.

 

[Hosehead]

I got OA in my knee joint from a motorcycle misadventure but did not expect it to manifest so quickly. I can't even describe the pain when it hits and I only got a small area of OA but luckily I can get the discomfort under control (well so far) . They have these injections now made from Chicken Combs (eg Synvisc- basically chicken derived hyaluronic acid which is injected into the knee to provide lube and can last 6 months) It's not cheap and they use a big asse needle 15 guage I think, but it alleviates most pain to enable people to walk normally. I'm going to give it a whirl.

 

[RiaX]

I agree with you - medical issues are complex. I know I am taking a too simplistic look at things. At least from the outside it appears to me that medicine is not progressing as fast as for example technology.

thats not because it cant progress, its because hippies wont let it progress. There is so much red tape. You know there are experimental models that can cure brain cancer? there are 100s of experimental nanomedicines out there however, due to lack of in vivo testing they cant enter the market. They cant even move into human models they in limbo (they have been around since 2000).

Ever since animal testing became so regulated it has almost halted the development of medical science. Not to mention the religious nut jobs that stopped the experiments on stem cells.

Ethics is the most painful excuse. Its necessary though one must value life however at what cost ? We currently cannot experiment on primates without very specialised consent, however what better model to test on ? unfortunately people see it as a waste even though that animal will not die in vain. Animal testing is a must we do not have the technology to synthetically create a true biological environment therefore we must use animals, with this hindered medical progression is hindered.

Currently one third of the population has TB, thats approximately 2.3 billion people and the situation is getting worse with the new strain of TDR-TB. Would you cause the extinction of an entire species to have a CHANCE to save these people ? and that is why medicine's progress is gone slow.

 

[Space_Chief]

Phase 1, 2 and 3 research in new TB and HIV as well as cancer chemo is going on all the time. Some of my work involves this.
Non Embryonic origin stem cell research is also going ahead full steam and is paying off very well.

The problem is still a problem with doctors not having time to listen or not always being well trained in all regards. A good doc always listens unless it's a problem like orthopedics where minimal history is needed and lots of hammering will follow. Patients usually tell the doc the diagnosis, most of the time. For some reason people seem to believe you can run a battery of tests and get results. For example some people still rely only on Rheumatoid Factor to diagnose Rheumatoid Arthritis where the positive predictive value of such test is low (false positives occur) (unless the typical clinical picture is there) and sero negative RA also occurs, and serum uric acid to exclude gout instead of aspirating a gouty joint for microscopy to look for gout or CPP crystals. Tests are very important but one must know when to run them and the clinical picture is No 1 in guiding diagnosis. Also visiting ER is not going to help with non-life threatening stuff. ER docs are trained to diagnose dangerous conditions so they're there to exclude something which can kill or maim you and send you out to your regular doc.

Pharmacists also sometimes give inappropriate advice. For anything worrisome, still better to invest in seeing a doctor.

 

[RiaX]

Phase 1, 2 and 3 research in new TB and HIV as well as cancer chemo is going on all the time. Some of my work involves this.

:O mine too, what are you working if you dont mind me asking

Patients usually tell the doc the diagnosis

This Dr Google really irritates me. When patients argue with me and dont listen and refer to google and ask for FDA trade named drugs (which do not exist in SA) then I leave them to their own diagnosis. Most of the time doesnt work out well for them but their fault for not listening

 

[Space_Chief]

:O mine too, what are you working if you dont mind me asking

I prefer to remain anonymous.

This Dr Google really irritates me. When patients argue with me and dont listen and refer to google and ask for FDA trade named drugs (which do not exist in SA) then I leave them to their own diagnosis. Most of the time doesnt work out well for them but their fault for not listening

No, I meant that patients often tell the HCW the diagnosis. Most of the time, the history contains the bulk of the info which either gives the diagnosis away OR points to specific tests one should run to exclude/confirm. I didn't mean that in the sense of patient's google for their diagnosis and elucidate it. That can be dangerous. I meant in the classic sense.

 

[w1z4rd]

Some people are just bitter chiropractors are not real doctors. They havent undergone the right medical training and think they know it all.