Parallel 2x router UPS

[AnimateX]

Does the brick charge itself from the 12V input? Or does it just pass it through? Either way, the Gizzu will die first and then the brick will take over. Just not as effective as running them one at a time if the 12V input does actually charge the brick. It may not be worth it if the losses are high which i suspect only some 80% efficiency if you lucky.

Yes the brick does charge itself from the 12V input. Forgot about that as I'm not sure how many amps it would pull from the Gizzu to charge and supply to the router at the same time.

The Gizzu batteries native output won't be spot on 12v and neither will the bricks battery charge input and output so there will be buck/boost conversion losses there.

Ahh that makes sense, I wrongly assumed there would be no conversion with DC.

Thanks guys, I think I'll just swap them out if needed in a long outage. Will look into a power-station later on to run my notebook and router.

 

[denmendez65]

Yes the brick does charge itself from the 12V input. Forgot about that as I'm not sure how many amps it would pull from the Gizzu to charge and supply to the router at the same time.

Ahh that makes sense, I wrongly assumed there would be no conversion with DC.

Thanks guys, I think I'll just swap them out if needed in a long outage. Will look into a power-station later on to run my notebook and router.

Have you considered playing a bit and opening up the old brick to see if you can replace the batteries? If you have a meter, you can check what the batteries are if not written on the cells themselves. You don't need to reuse the case.

I suspect it may be a single high-capacity 3.7V lithium, or multiple of these in parallel. Could also be 1.5V but unlikely as those are typically AA or AAA batteries. 18650 is also very unlikely.

It is a bit involved but it's a fun way to play with the stuff. You can make the batteries as big as you want up to a point also. The converter (boost only I suspect) won't know the difference.

 

[denmendez65]

Yes the brick does charge itself from the 12V input. Forgot about that as I'm not sure how many amps it would pull from the Gizzu to charge and supply to the router at the same time.

Ahh that makes sense, I wrongly assumed there would be no conversion with DC.

Thanks guys, I think I'll just swap them out if needed in a long outage. Will look into a power-station later on to run my notebook and router.

I think it is these ones that might be inside. Just don't short it. I did that back in the day, playing with these cells, and it wasn't a pleasant experience . I used to retrofit these batteries into stuff like torches, etc. that didn't have rechargeable batteries and add in the Lion charger, which was a tiny piece of hardware with a micro USB port for charging. Loadshedding made me do funny things as a broke student.

 

[wingnut771]

View attachment 1901101

I think it is these ones that might be inside. Just don't short it. I did that back in the day, playing with these cells, and it wasn't a pleasant experience . I used to retrofit these batteries into stuff like torches, etc. that didn't have rechargeable batteries and add in the Lion charger, which was a tiny piece of hardware with a micro USB port for charging. Loadshedding made me do funny things as a broke student.

Im sure they have 18650 cells that are welded together so no an easy job.

 

[wingnut771]

Yes the brick does charge itself from the 12V input. Forgot about that as I'm not sure how many amps it would pull from the Gizzu to charge and supply to the router at the same time.

Ahh that makes sense, I wrongly assumed there would be no conversion with DC.

Thanks guys, I think I'll just swap them out if needed in a long outage. Will look into a power-station later on to run my notebook and router.

I doubt the losses are that much and would avoid the hassle of swooping things. If my router upss had 12v input I would daisy chain but mine have ac input so could only split them one using the Wi-Fi and the other the ont.

 

[denmendez65]

Im sure they have 18650 cells that are welded together so no an easy job.

Doubt. UPS are slim. Those 18650 are big. You cant fit those in most UPS.

 

[AnimateX]

I doubt the losses are that much and would avoid the hassle of swooping things. If my router upss had 12v input I would daisy chain but mine have ac input so could only split them one using the Wi-Fi and the other the ont.

Hmm... you have me thinking again. I just checked the Gizzu specs and the 12V ports are rated for 5A so plenty to supply the brick for charging and its output.

Doubt. UPS are slim. Those 18650 are big. You cant fit those in most UPS.

The brick is one of these, about 6 years old now. Mini DC UPS (12000mAh) Backup Battery Power Bank Supply (44.4Wh). So those look like 18650 batteries. Wingnut is right, it wont be an easy task for me to replace those and the batteries will probably cost more than it's worth.

It used to last 8 hours when new and only 4.5 hours now. It still works, just the charging light never turns green to show it's fully charged and the diminished capacity.

The Gizzu is a 65WH. If I daisy chain the two I think I should get around 16 hours.

 

[cavedog]

Im sure they have 18650 cells that are welded together so no an easy job.

Doubt. UPS are slim. Those 18650 are big. You cant fit those in most UPS.

Very possible actually. They are just spot welded with nickel strips and a very basic BMS.

I opened a bunch of these UPS since the work bins them. Most have batteries that are still good, but they don't charge or power on or broken BMS.

I got a small rechargeable spot welder and nickel strips and even heat shrink sleeves for the 18650 cells so I can renew them and repurpose them. Also got a Lithium charger/tester made for various sizes but 18650 being one of them. So far, all these cells have at least 90%+ capacity left as per the cheap Chinese charger.

 

[denmendez65]

Hmm... you have me thinking again. I just checked the Gizzu specs and the 12V ports are rated for 5A so plenty to supply the brick for charging and its output.

View attachment 1901174

The brick is one of these, about 6 years old now. Mini DC UPS (12000mAh) Backup Battery Power Bank Supply (44.4Wh). So those look like 18650 batteries. Wingnut is right, it wont be an easy task for me to replace those and the batteries will probably cost more than it's worth.

It used to last 8 hours when new and only 4.5 hours now. It still works, just the charging light never turns green to show it's fully charged and the diminished capacity.

The Gizzu is a 65WH. If I daisy chain the two I think I should get around 16 hours.

Damn. Okay I am used to the slim ones like power banks. That is huge

 

[denmendez65]

Very possible actually. They are just spot welded with nickel strips and a very basic BMS.

I opened a bunch of these UPS since the work bins them. Most have batteries that are still good, but they don't charge or power on or broken BMS.

I got a small rechargeable spot welder and nickel strips and even heat shrink sleeves for the 18650 cells so I can renew them and repurpose them. Also got a Lithium charger/tester made for various sizes but 18650 being one of them. So far, all these cells have at least 90%+ capacity left as per the cheap Chinese charger.

Since it’s 18650 cells there is no need to solder anything as there is 18650 holders that can do that with the 2 wires that just need to be connected.

You are right that it would quite easy.

 

[wingnut771]

Since it’s 18650 cells there is no need to solder anything as there is 18650 holders that can do that with the 2 wires that just need to be connected.

You are right that it would quite easy.

Then it won’t fit in the original case.

 

[wingnut771]

Very possible actually. They are just spot welded with nickel strips and a very basic BMS.

I opened a bunch of these UPS since the work bins them. Most have batteries that are still good, but they don't charge or power on or broken BMS.

I got a small rechargeable spot welder and nickel strips and even heat shrink sleeves for the 18650 cells so I can renew them and repurpose them. Also got a Lithium charger/tester made for various sizes but 18650 being one of them. So far, all these cells have at least 90%+ capacity left as per the cheap Chinese charger.

Yes, if you have multiple faulty units then maybe it’s worth investing in special equipment. If one just has one that is faulty then buy another one or if you have one that doesn’t last long anymore then buy another one (make sure it’s lfp so it lasts longer instead of nmc) and daisy chain (if it has dc input) so less cycles are put on the old one.

 

[B-1]

Hmm... you have me thinking again. I just checked the Gizzu specs and the 12V ports are rated for 5A so plenty to supply the brick for charging and its output.

View attachment 1901174

The brick is one of these, about 6 years old now. Mini DC UPS (12000mAh) Backup Battery Power Bank Supply (44.4Wh). So those look like 18650 batteries. Wingnut is right, it wont be an easy task for me to replace those and the batteries will probably cost more than it's worth.

It used to last 8 hours when new and only 4.5 hours now. It still works, just the charging light never turns green to show it's fully charged and the diminished capacity.

The Gizzu is a 65WH. If I daisy chain the two I think I should get around 16 hours.

Do you have a multimeter? I don't see any balancing on that battery so the cells are likely just out of balance. If you can rebalance them it might solve the issue.

 

[denmendez65]

Then it won’t fit in the original case.

True but I would get rid of the case. I have a 3D printer and would make one around a holder. Then you can always just replace the parts as they fail. Wouldn’t solder the batteries personally.

 

[denmendez65]

Do you have a multimeter? I don't see any balancing on that battery so the cells are likely just out of balance. If you can rebalance them it might solve the issue.

Aren’t they all in parallel? There is no combination of the 3.7V that will give 12V. I assume they are all parallel and the convertor takes care of it to hit 12

 

[cavedog]

Aren’t they all in parallel? There is no combination of the 3.7V that will give 12V. I assume they are all parallel and the convertor takes care of it to hit 12

For the Gizzu UPS they are 4 x cell in series. For the white Redisson UPS it was 2 x Cell in Series x 2 Parallel

 

[denmendez65]

For the Gizzu UPS they are 4 x cell in series. For the white Redisson UPS it was 2 x Cell in Series x 2 Parallel

So it seems it’s not standard. Gizzu if outputting 12V, sounds like it’s using a Buck for the output. Redisson is using a boost.

 

[cavedog]

So it seems it’s not standard. Gizzu if outputting 12V, sounds like it’s using a Buck for the output. Redisson is using a boost.

The Gizzu battery packs also have a BMS on the battery pack. The Redisson one doesn't have a BMS on the battery, but a BMS build in on the board as B1, B2 etc cables go directly to the batteries.

 

[wingnut771]

True but I would get rid of the case. I have a 3D printer and would make one around a holder. Then you can always just replace the parts as they fail. Wouldn’t solder the batteries personally.

I think a spot welder is cheaper than a 3d printer. But flippin hell

 

[denmendez65]

I think a spot welder is cheaper than a 3d printer. But flippin hell
View attachment 1901196

Nope. You don’t neee to own a 3D printer lol. Use FreeCad that is free. Build your thing and get a company to print it for you. I did most of my hobby projects like that back in the day before I bought one.

The original case is limiting. Build once, use a holder for the cells and you will have the UPS for life. No soldering between the cells needed.