Somebody playing with this big red knob again?
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Pay-as-you-Go Data Bundle Discrepancies
- Thread starter Skeptik
- Start date
Somebody playing with this big red knob again?
Probably, but I bet they try make it my problem.
hashbrown99
Expert Member
How much have you uploaded?
The_Unbeliever
Honorary Master
Sounds as if you've got something on your PC which spams world+dog...
...and no, you won't get a refund.
...and no, you won't get a refund.
CellBel
Expert Member
You are the third person in this MTN section (including myself) who have lost 500Mb on a 1gig bundle since last month.
diabolus
Executive Member
I'm still waiting for my itemized bill, i also went 500MB over , however it's on my 2GB bundle. I usually struggle to use up 2GB.. Received no warning or anything, just bam got a R1200+ bill.
*Sigh* So yea probably won't get a refund either, but would've been nice to actually get informed about this before i blew my bundle.
Luckily the OP, saw his bundle is gone after 2 weeks and checked, unlike me who only check in the final week
(i assume you're on prepaid)
Anyway, my issue is the lack of control and monitoring tools from MTN. They can royally ruin your finances with this stuff, yet they chill back like thugs almost -intentionally- hoping we do this to extract exorbitant amounts of money from us. Almost borderline extortion if you ask me, it's like selling drugs to kids....
*Sigh* So yea probably won't get a refund either, but would've been nice to actually get informed about this before i blew my bundle.
Luckily the OP, saw his bundle is gone after 2 weeks and checked, unlike me who only check in the final week
(i assume you're on prepaid)Anyway, my issue is the lack of control and monitoring tools from MTN. They can royally ruin your finances with this stuff, yet they chill back like thugs almost -intentionally- hoping we do this to extract exorbitant amounts of money from us. Almost borderline extortion if you ask me, it's like selling drugs to kids....
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I e-mailed my problem to mtn and they phoned me yesterday and said that I must upgrade the driver and interface software availible on the mtn website. Did that and will test it when I load a new bundle. They say that the interface monitoring the data usages isn't accurate and that an update is needed. Here is the link to the page I downloaded from; http://www.mtn.co.za/?pid=327484
Skeptik
Banned
It seems to be working correctly for me. In fact it's quite dramatically different from when I opened this thread. Shame we can't get a refund. They were obviously experiencing some problems at MTN.
Data Crookery or 2 stupid 2 count?
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Here's what happened to me while this thread was going on (I didn't follow) and it could well be that my actions have something to do with your believe that the problem has disappeared for now. I would not know, have "voted with my feet" as some say.
After my last post I sent fax to GM Customer Services. Some technical chap called back. A week long testing and, viola, problem persists and is now confirmed: Overcharge / underdelivery of 70%. Next step: We work on a solution. Some superdatachap is called in blablabla, and now I am told that the problem is common - permanent overcharge. Just that others would complain about 20% or 60% (specifically mentioned) overcharge. Suddenly, a new "explanation" comes up (after the header story which might have credibility): "Holistic counting of data..." Well, all very congested with BS, I'd say... Anyway: Little tech chap agrees to send me super tech chap's explanation in writing iot enable me to make informed decision as to whether to take the matter further, litigiously speaking. We agree on a date. Date comes and goes, no explanation arrives. A day later or so I get an email containing some wiki links about throughput rate ("speed"). Little data chap claims that big data chaps' explanation is delayed , in the meantime wouldn't I want to read this? "No", I respond, "not our issue" and: "Where's the explanatory mail you promised?" Next email I get tells me that we'd have discussed something like "goodput" and throughput rate all along etc. blabla which, of course, is nonsense. Nothing proper in writing, still. Next, I get a voice message: "Am I happy whith what they have given me thus far," they'd like to call it a day thankyou very much? Here my response, in part:
---
No, I am not "happy" with the explanation MTN has "given" me thus far. Which is not surprising as I have not been given any explanation at all.
[...]
To spell the issue out, again: A persistent average of 70% of the data which is billed against my purchased bundles (payment before delivery) is not going through two independent data counters on my system leading to my - as I believe reasonable - conclusion that the missing data is not used on my end and that, therefore, I am not receiving in full what I have paid for.
During our indeed extensive conversations and based on testing done from your end, it emerged that:
1) MTN confirmed that, in order to be billed for data usage, be that a prepaid or postpaid agreement, a customer must be enabled to use same.
2) Via testing done from MTN's end, MTN confirmed the existence of the shortfall - issue of approx 70% in relation to billed / delivered amounts
on both qualitative and quantitative level.
3) MTN further confirmed the issue to be classified as a problem - in particular it was revealed that there are other customers with similar data accounting problems except that their complaints would relate to over billing or under delivery of a different percentage, i.e. 60% or 20% instead of 70% as in my case.
4) MTN offered as explanation for my problem some form of incomplete accounting on my end in that "overheads" of "bundles" would not be counted by either of my systems and that same would explain some percentage of the shortfall. MTN could not explain in a satisfactory manner or at all the discrepancy of the remaining percentage of the over billed / under delivered portion of data unaccounted for.
5) On the basis that MTN offered a written explanation to its claim that all data purchased had, in fact, been delivered and correctly been billed from MTN's end, our conversations were abandoned on or about Jan31, 2007. This written testimony was offered in form of an email to be received during the course of business on Feb 04, 2007.
6) To date, same has not come about. Your above mentioned voice message supports the notion that the explanation is not planned to be delivered at all.
7) It furthermore appears that an entirely unrelated technical issue is supposed to "explain" the above problem.
This is not acceptable. I have invested a substantial amount of my productive hours to investigate and assess this matter and after we have spent a further considerable amount of time on the issue, too, and I seem to recall that we agreed in trying to resolve the issue on adult level. Now all you guys can come up with is a link to wikipedia? - Hilarious!
[...]
In light of the above, please take note of the following:
By next Monday, Feb 18, (Close of business), I demand delivery of the promised written explanation by MTN as to why and how all and any data purchased has, in fact, been delivered and has been deducted correctly from the purchased bundle and why thus my two accounting systems must be incorrect. (Signed letter to this email address will suffice, pdf preferred).
Alternatively, MTN may settle the matter immediately by reimbursing the assumed direct damages to the value of approx. R119.00 per month x 19 months = R2,261.00 by sending a cheque in my name for the full amount by registered mail to:
.....
(Same deadline applies; proof thereof supplied to this email address shall suffice to settle issue in finality).
[...]
---
Of course I did not get any money or explanation. What I got was this:
---
[...]
I think there has been misunderstanding about you getting a written explanation from MTN,as far as I remember prior to the example I sent, I promised that if I get written explanation from the data manager, I will then send you,becuase I didnt get it then I sent you the mail which I believe illustrate what we were talking about. Please do not expect any other written information.
The practical tests that we did proved that data counters do not count wholistic data hence the same percentage in differences between network billing and data counter.
I therefore recommend that you do not use data counter for billing purposes.
You have been billed correctly and therefore it will be unfair that we refund you.
[...]
Whether I will ever get the money back I believe I've spent without getting what I paid for - who knows. But one thing is for certain: I will go all the way to get the information they said they would give me, and they will release it whether they like it or not; just based on the promise that they would. We'll see how far MTN's memory can be assisted by playing back endless call logs. Anyway; next comes my Letter of Demand, delivered by the Sheriff. I might even send a reporter with.
On the notion that all is fine now: If it was that easy to quickly (coincidentally?) let a seemingly large problem disappear, it will be as easy to make it re-appear. Maybe not with you guys here, maybe with some gullible, less eductaed folks elsewhere. I think it is about time that South Africans wake up and give these businesses a run for their money. Errgh - our money, actually. Until they deliver what they've promised the money belongs to the client. So: It's not a refund.
To make the upper management travel to a shabby small claims court far away is the least I can do to further the subject. Every little bit helps.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Here's what happened to me while this thread was going on (I didn't follow) and it could well be that my actions have something to do with your believe that the problem has disappeared for now. I would not know, have "voted with my feet" as some say.
After my last post I sent fax to GM Customer Services. Some technical chap called back. A week long testing and, viola, problem persists and is now confirmed: Overcharge / underdelivery of 70%. Next step: We work on a solution. Some superdatachap is called in blablabla, and now I am told that the problem is common - permanent overcharge. Just that others would complain about 20% or 60% (specifically mentioned) overcharge. Suddenly, a new "explanation" comes up (after the header story which might have credibility): "Holistic counting of data..." Well, all very congested with BS, I'd say... Anyway: Little tech chap agrees to send me super tech chap's explanation in writing iot enable me to make informed decision as to whether to take the matter further, litigiously speaking. We agree on a date. Date comes and goes, no explanation arrives. A day later or so I get an email containing some wiki links about throughput rate ("speed"). Little data chap claims that big data chaps' explanation is delayed , in the meantime wouldn't I want to read this? "No", I respond, "not our issue" and: "Where's the explanatory mail you promised?" Next email I get tells me that we'd have discussed something like "goodput" and throughput rate all along etc. blabla which, of course, is nonsense. Nothing proper in writing, still. Next, I get a voice message: "Am I happy whith what they have given me thus far," they'd like to call it a day thankyou very much? Here my response, in part:
---
No, I am not "happy" with the explanation MTN has "given" me thus far. Which is not surprising as I have not been given any explanation at all.
[...]
To spell the issue out, again: A persistent average of 70% of the data which is billed against my purchased bundles (payment before delivery) is not going through two independent data counters on my system leading to my - as I believe reasonable - conclusion that the missing data is not used on my end and that, therefore, I am not receiving in full what I have paid for.
During our indeed extensive conversations and based on testing done from your end, it emerged that:
1) MTN confirmed that, in order to be billed for data usage, be that a prepaid or postpaid agreement, a customer must be enabled to use same.
2) Via testing done from MTN's end, MTN confirmed the existence of the shortfall - issue of approx 70% in relation to billed / delivered amounts
on both qualitative and quantitative level.
3) MTN further confirmed the issue to be classified as a problem - in particular it was revealed that there are other customers with similar data accounting problems except that their complaints would relate to over billing or under delivery of a different percentage, i.e. 60% or 20% instead of 70% as in my case.
4) MTN offered as explanation for my problem some form of incomplete accounting on my end in that "overheads" of "bundles" would not be counted by either of my systems and that same would explain some percentage of the shortfall. MTN could not explain in a satisfactory manner or at all the discrepancy of the remaining percentage of the over billed / under delivered portion of data unaccounted for.
5) On the basis that MTN offered a written explanation to its claim that all data purchased had, in fact, been delivered and correctly been billed from MTN's end, our conversations were abandoned on or about Jan31, 2007. This written testimony was offered in form of an email to be received during the course of business on Feb 04, 2007.
6) To date, same has not come about. Your above mentioned voice message supports the notion that the explanation is not planned to be delivered at all.
7) It furthermore appears that an entirely unrelated technical issue is supposed to "explain" the above problem.
This is not acceptable. I have invested a substantial amount of my productive hours to investigate and assess this matter and after we have spent a further considerable amount of time on the issue, too, and I seem to recall that we agreed in trying to resolve the issue on adult level. Now all you guys can come up with is a link to wikipedia? - Hilarious!
[...]
In light of the above, please take note of the following:
By next Monday, Feb 18, (Close of business), I demand delivery of the promised written explanation by MTN as to why and how all and any data purchased has, in fact, been delivered and has been deducted correctly from the purchased bundle and why thus my two accounting systems must be incorrect. (Signed letter to this email address will suffice, pdf preferred).
Alternatively, MTN may settle the matter immediately by reimbursing the assumed direct damages to the value of approx. R119.00 per month x 19 months = R2,261.00 by sending a cheque in my name for the full amount by registered mail to:
.....
(Same deadline applies; proof thereof supplied to this email address shall suffice to settle issue in finality).
[...]
---
Of course I did not get any money or explanation. What I got was this:
---
[...]
I think there has been misunderstanding about you getting a written explanation from MTN,as far as I remember prior to the example I sent, I promised that if I get written explanation from the data manager, I will then send you,becuase I didnt get it then I sent you the mail which I believe illustrate what we were talking about. Please do not expect any other written information.
The practical tests that we did proved that data counters do not count wholistic data hence the same percentage in differences between network billing and data counter.
I therefore recommend that you do not use data counter for billing purposes.
You have been billed correctly and therefore it will be unfair that we refund you.
[...]
Whether I will ever get the money back I believe I've spent without getting what I paid for - who knows. But one thing is for certain: I will go all the way to get the information they said they would give me, and they will release it whether they like it or not; just based on the promise that they would. We'll see how far MTN's memory can be assisted by playing back endless call logs. Anyway; next comes my Letter of Demand, delivered by the Sheriff. I might even send a reporter with.
On the notion that all is fine now: If it was that easy to quickly (coincidentally?) let a seemingly large problem disappear, it will be as easy to make it re-appear. Maybe not with you guys here, maybe with some gullible, less eductaed folks elsewhere. I think it is about time that South Africans wake up and give these businesses a run for their money. Errgh - our money, actually. Until they deliver what they've promised the money belongs to the client. So: It's not a refund.
To make the upper management travel to a shabby small claims court far away is the least I can do to further the subject. Every little bit helps.
No its not fixed
here you can see the picture of my mtn connection and my net meter side by side, notice according to netmeter i had a gig left on my 2g bundle when according to mtn it had run out, this is not the first time, but i feel it could be the last. how do i switch over to vodacom id i have a e220?
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2632&size=big&cat=500
the reply will be that their software isnt accurate, why isnt it? blah blah blah etc etc thats if your willing to waste several days getting a reply and having several people hang up on you
here you can see the picture of my mtn connection and my net meter side by side, notice according to netmeter i had a gig left on my 2g bundle when according to mtn it had run out, this is not the first time, but i feel it could be the last. how do i switch over to vodacom id i have a e220?
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php?photo=2632&size=big&cat=500
the reply will be that their software isnt accurate, why isnt it? blah blah blah etc etc thats if your willing to waste several days getting a reply and having several people hang up on you
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Have you checked with MTN how much you actually have left?
Get yourself a Vodacom pre-paid SIM, load some airtime on it and then convert the airtime to a data bundle.
Their software only writes the data usage to disc when you shut it down. If the software isn't closed in the normal fashion, i.e. you log out, switch off or Eskom work their magic, your data counters will be lower than actual.
The data cards themselves have a tendency to give higher than actual counters, this mostly happens in low signal conditions, when the connection is unexpectedly terminated or the card switches from 3G to 2G while connected. I think this might be what you are seeing.
If the threads are about the technical causes / effects (which I presume to be similar) the threads could be merged - imhv. Few differences, on the legal end, for instance: postpaid = overbilling = fraud allegation (if one can prove they knew...) vs. prepaid = underdelivery = breach (much easier to fight) might mean disgruntled customers should start a new thread? But where? - Still waiting for the honest insider who tells us WTF is going on.
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CellBel
Expert Member
ja but...
this is not the first time last time they just said i cant use their software to gauge usage with so i got netmeter, since then according to net meter they have stiffed me with 200, 700 and now 1000mb. so im moving to vodacom - how do i do that? get vc sim card load airtime and bundle then
1.what do i load on the e220 a different driver?
2. where do i get the vodacom connection software?
thanks
this is not the first time last time they just said i cant use their software to gauge usage with so i got netmeter, since then according to net meter they have stiffed me with 200, 700 and now 1000mb. so im moving to vodacom - how do i do that? get vc sim card load airtime and bundle then
1.what do i load on the e220 a different driver?
2. where do i get the vodacom connection software?
thanks
Is that according to MTN, or the MTN Dashboard loaded on your PC?
Don't need a different driver, or different software, just set up a new profile with the APN as 'internet' not 'myMTN'.
Ginggs, you seem to be in the know... Would you be able to come up with a theory / thesis / assumption which could explain a miscalculation which is
a) permanent? (i.e. it always occurs, with every single log on)
b) retains about the same average in quantity (i.e +70%)
c) miscalculates one direction only (i.e. -70% {or any other negative miscalculation} does not happen)
other than interference? I see an extremely large questionmark here, statistically speaking.
Here's proof: MTN IS cheating!
I just checked data transmission on my new prepaid vc bundle: byte trf (up and down over the last few days) 26699745 in total = 26073.970 kilobytes = 25.46MB. And how much data did Vc deduct from the pre-paid bundle? 25,3MB! Pretty accurate, I'd say! With MTN it would have been in the region of 44MB.
But what is more import than the "saving": The result proves that small discrepancies do in fact exist - see: ginggs remark above! (My data count was about 1% higher than the deduction).
But, please, MTN: Do not make us believe that the same 70% discrepancy all the time and always same way with absolutely no exception is a possibility!
It also disproves their "explanation" according to which occurrences like "latency", "goodput" and "headers" were allegedly responsible for my problem. In which event an interesting question would arise: "WHERE WERE THESE THINGS TODAY AND YESTERDAY?" - Or are they they the exclusive, miraculous feature for (certain - some - many - most - who knows: all?) MTN clients? No magistrate in the world is going to believe THAT.
For those who want to stay with the crooks: Happy counting!
I just checked data transmission on my new prepaid vc bundle: byte trf (up and down over the last few days) 26699745 in total = 26073.970 kilobytes = 25.46MB. And how much data did Vc deduct from the pre-paid bundle? 25,3MB! Pretty accurate, I'd say! With MTN it would have been in the region of 44MB.
But what is more import than the "saving": The result proves that small discrepancies do in fact exist - see: ginggs remark above! (My data count was about 1% higher than the deduction).
But, please, MTN: Do not make us believe that the same 70% discrepancy all the time and always same way with absolutely no exception is a possibility!
It also disproves their "explanation" according to which occurrences like "latency", "goodput" and "headers" were allegedly responsible for my problem. In which event an interesting question would arise: "WHERE WERE THESE THINGS TODAY AND YESTERDAY?" - Or are they they the exclusive, miraculous feature for (certain - some - many - most - who knows: all?) MTN clients? No magistrate in the world is going to believe THAT.
For those who want to stay with the crooks: Happy counting!