PBX options - SIP

gmza said:
Marine1: I find it interesting that you attack VoIP given that you don't even know what SIP is. It's only the most widely used standard for VoIP signalling! Have you considered that your lack of knowlege regarding VoIP may, at least in part, have led to poor implementation and a disappointing service experience?
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Ok, I have personally worked with VOIP via different SP's in SA and it does NOT work. What I mena by that is that it is not stable and QOS cannot be guaranteed. Yeah it gives you discounted calls but at the cost of quality. It is fine for home but is not for business. Anyone who tells you otherwise is maybe lying or sells that crap. Maybe you should go and ask the experts. It is not a solution for business. And I know what SIP is. :rolleyes: Doesnt mean I am a Neotel expert.
Running a business over our useless ADSL is not advisable.
gmza said:
Not all providers are the same, not all networks are the same and not all VoIP is the same. Yes, VoIP over the public internet can vary in quality. Different aspects affect this. e.g. local or foreign soft-switch, connectivity of the provider, quality of devices used on both the customer side and provider side, level of interconnection of the provider.
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Hmm so you can guarantee QOS? :rolleyes: Thanks but no thanks I need reliable service and not something that may or may not work depending on the time of day and amount of users on the service.
gmza said:
I have customers with upwards of R50,000 per month worth of phone calls running over VoIP. At that level, if the quality was not good, I'm pretty certain they would move elsewhere. Interestingly, one such customer actually said "thank you for the great service" over the phone today. Of course, that was a professional installation using tried-and-tested technologies and properly set up from the start. ADSL was used, but supplemented with wireless (for backup).
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I would love to see that. R50k? Tell me how many ports are being used and also who the SP is. Next you going to tell me you are using Iburst as the wireless backup.
Sorry but IMO It does not work and I will not tell people it does.
Guys are trying to get rich quick on this just like what happened in the beginning with Premi Cells.
 
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voip

VOIP is working in SA and not bad at all. Look at Telfree or Connection-Telecom etc. And the bandwith can be better but almost all the callcenters who work for European countries and firms use VOIP. So don't tell me VOIP doenst work.
It works and is good for business but you need the right software and configuration and provider. When in June 2009 the internet cable will arrive in SA I hope dat bandwith will increase more so more VOIP initiatives will be started and prices will go down.
 
landfiets said:
VOIP is working in SA and not bad at all. Look at Telfree or Connection-Telecom etc. And the bandwith can be better but almost all the callcenters who work for European countries and firms use VOIP. So don't tell me VOIP doenst work.
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You just pointed out the issue
landfiets said:
It works and is good for business but you need the right software and configuration and provider. When in June 2009 the internet cable will arrive in SA I hope dat bandwith will increase more so more VOIP initiatives will be started and prices will go down.
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Well DUH!! lets hope so but the point is it is not a quality solution NOW. Anyone who tried to sell this is lying to the customer. It may work, sometimes but it is not a guaranteed QOS.
 
negative

I think you are too negative !! It is not a constructive en motivating way of giving reply when you almost only are negative. When all your posts are like that, I can imagine why you achieve so much of posts (more than 9000)
 
landfiets said:
I think you are too negative !! It is not a constructive en motivating way of giving reply when you almost only are negative. When all your posts are like that, I can imagine why you achieve so much of posts (more than 9000)
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??
What are you talking about? 28 posts and you know me? I am merely pointing out that IMO Voip resellers are ripping off the public for a service that is not guaranteed. They are trying to get these guys into contracts that are difficult to get out of for services that are not quality. :confused:
You are in the Netherlands so what would you know about VOIP in SA?
I am not saying VOIP does not work, it does not work in SA under the current conditions.
This is a South African Telecoms forum so we are discussing SA telecoms.
 
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3cx

To go a little more in detail. 3CX is a windows based PBX which is very expensive when you want unlimited functionality, and has not a reliable solution for Fax unless you buy certain kind of Patton stuff. I know Yeastar in China has taken a lot of knowledge from 3CX and also includs Skype trunks with it. Maybe you can try that.

When I look at Elastix it has Asterisk, Billing, CRM, Freepbx, Fax, etc, etc. Elastix even has a callcentre module !!!


And for Marine1: ............No, I donnot know you and yes I agree with bandwith issue, but codecs like G729 do a good job. So even in more problematic internet conditions you can still have a good connection.
I know the SA situation since I work in SA a lot. I think your comments sound a bit frustrated and I surely doubt your knowledge since you didn't know what SIP was !!!!!!!!!!!!

SIP is the most used voip protocol in the whole wide world. It is flexibel, not propriety like skype and allows more companies and firms to sell their voipservices over the internet. IAX is also a possibillity but I don't know if there is a provider in SA which is still selling IAX accounts.
 
marine1 said:
Ok, I have personally worked with VOIP via different SP's in SA and it does NOT work. What I mena by that is that it is not stable and QOS cannot be guaranteed. Yeah it gives you discounted calls but at the cost of quality. It is fine for home but is not for business. Anyone who tells you otherwise is maybe lying or sells that crap. Maybe you should go and ask the experts. It is not a solution for business. And I know what SIP is. :rolleyes: Doesnt mean I am a Neotel expert.
Running a business over our useless ADSL is not advisable.
Hmm so you can guarantee QOS? :rolleyes: Thanks but no thanks I need reliable service and not something that may or may not work depending on the time of day and amount of users on the service.
I would love to see that. R50k? Tell me how many ports are being used and also who the SP is. Next you going to tell me you are using Iburst as the wireless backup.
Sorry but IMO It does not work and I will not tell people it does.
Guys are trying to get rich quick on this just like what happened in the beginning with Premi Cells.
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I never said that we would be running VOIP over ADSL, where did you read that? We will be running SIP over a dedicated CDMA link into the Neotel Network. This link will be exclusively for voice and comes with the same SLA that you would get if you were running PRI over fibre. So yes, QOS is gauranteed by Neotel. If VOIP didn't work, Neotel would be screwed because their entire network is IP based and they're spending billions of rands on building and rolling out their network.
 
I always laugh when I see people who think that service experience is related to QoS (the technical concept) alone. These are the stubborn folk who still think that a traditional Telkom line will give the best overall service experience. Until one day, some copper thieves rip out the entire neighborhood's cabling and it takes Telkom weeks - perhaps months - to restore service, weeks during which you're either out of business or get the neighbor's calls and they get yours because there is chaos trying to re-wire hundreds of connections in tight time constraints.

They're the same people who run their VoIP over a single expensive diginet link because the QoS is guaranteed and enjoy six months of great service followed by a six-hour outage during which their business is ground to a complete halt.

By contrast, there are those folk that realise that you can obtain a pretty great VoIP service from a few of the other licenced operators in SA. A service that can be delivered over multiple affordable redundant mediums. Those mediums may not - individually - be as reliable as the more traditional mediums. Those mediums may not - individually - exhibit 100% consistency. But viewed collectively, with the choice of whichever is best at the time, they are usually more reliable and as consistent as the traditional mediums. And because they are so much cheaper, one never needs to rely on just one medium. Whether it be a combination of ADSL, WiMax, 3G, CDMA, WiFi or whatever else is available and best delivered in the area that you're in, there is a lot to be said about diversity. A lot to be said about not having all one's eggs in one basket.

Thankfully, we're finally at the point in the SA market where there is choice. Choice to use Telkom. Choice to use Neotel. Choice to use various VoIP providers.

Thank goodness for that. And let's hope that the luddites among us don't distract the rest of us from enjoying choice. After all, we've been fighting for it for decades.
 
gmza said:
I always laugh when I see people who think that service experience is related to QoS (the technical concept) alone. These are the stubborn folk who still think that a traditional Telkom line will give the best overall service experience. Until one day, some copper thieves rip out the entire neighborhood's cabling and it takes Telkom weeks - perhaps months - to restore service, weeks during which you're either out of business or get the neighbor's calls and they get yours because there is chaos trying to re-wire hundreds of connections in tight time constraints.

They're the same people who run their VoIP over a single expensive diginet link because the QoS is guaranteed and enjoy six months of great service followed by a six-hour outage during which their business is ground to a complete halt.

By contrast, there are those folk that realise that you can obtain a pretty great VoIP service from a few of the other licenced operators in SA. A service that can be delivered over multiple affordable redundant mediums. Those mediums may not - individually - be as reliable as the more traditional mediums. Those mediums may not - individually - exhibit 100% consistency. But viewed collectively, with the choice of whichever is best at the time, they are usually more reliable and as consistent as the traditional mediums. And because they are so much cheaper, one never needs to rely on just one medium. Whether it be a combination of ADSL, WiMax, 3G, CDMA, WiFi or whatever else is available and best delivered in the area that you're in, there is a lot to be said about diversity. A lot to be said about not having all one's eggs in one basket.

Thankfully, we're finally at the point in the SA market where there is choice. Choice to use Telkom. Choice to use Neotel. Choice to use various VoIP providers.

Thank goodness for that. And let's hope that the luddites among us don't distract the rest of us from enjoying choice. After all, we've been fighting for it for decades.
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I agree with you 100% that you can't rely on one service alone, especially if your phone service is business critical, but there's nothing wrong with opting for a good quality service as your primary link. The SLA means there are penalties built into contract obligating the SP to provide a certain level of quality and service, which translates into less headaches for me at the end of the day. Couple that with ADSL/3G as a backup and you're golden ;)
 
I would love to know the success of your SIP trunk over Neotel.

I have been struggle with a client of mine. Running sip trunks over dedicated ADSL line. Works perfect for a month then suddenly it terrible for a week. lag, jitter low call volumes.

No client doesn't have fibre. And I cant seem to find any GSM (sim card) gateways. I had my hands on a set many years back, But dono where to get them,

Is neotell and viable option? We looking for 4 -5 concurrent calls?

I mean my gut feel is VoIP and wireless. Hmmm doesnt sound like a good combo?
 
Zapo said:
I would love to know the success of your SIP trunk over Neotel.

I have been struggle with a client of mine. Running sip trunks over dedicated ADSL line. Works perfect for a month then suddenly it terrible for a week. lag, jitter low call volumes.

No client doesn't have fibre. And I cant seem to find any GSM (sim card) gateways. I had my hands on a set many years back, But dono where to get them,

Is neotell and viable option? We looking for 4 -5 concurrent calls?

I mean my gut feel is VoIP and wireless. Hmmm doesnt sound like a good combo?
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Hi Zapo

We currently have a large number of clients running SIP over the Neotel network and we can happily say it's the best quality service currently available to our clients.

Keep in mind that Neotel SIP does not run over the internet, its a dedicated service that only runs over Neotels network, which means Neotel can control the client experience from the client premises all the way to where it breaks out to other voice operators, something normal VoIP providers cannot offer, no matter what they say.

Unfortunately the NeoVoice service is only available over Fibre or Microwave. If you send me the client coordinates I'll be able to tell you what services are available where they are.
 
quik said:
Hi Zapo

We currently have a large number of clients running SIP over the Neotel network and we can happily say it's the best quality service currently available to our clients.

Keep in mind that Neotel SIP does not run over the internet, its a dedicated service that only runs over Neotels network, which means Neotel can control the client experience from the client premises all the way to where it breaks out to other voice operators, something normal VoIP providers cannot offer, no matter what they say.

Unfortunately the NeoVoice service is only available over Fibre or Microwave. If you send me the client coordinates I'll be able to tell you what services are available where they are.
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I just got off the phone with Neotel. They said that I can get Neotel Voice (which is a 1 line analogue gateway) and I must buy several of them. This doesn't sound like a very elegant or cost effective solution.

What service from them are you using.
 
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Zapo said:
I would love to know the success of your SIP trunk over Neotel.

I have been struggle with a client of mine. Running sip trunks over dedicated ADSL line. Works perfect for a month then suddenly it terrible for a week. lag, jitter low call volumes.

No client doesn't have fibre. And I cant seem to find any GSM (sim card) gateways. I had my hands on a set many years back, But dono where to get them,

Is neotell and viable option? We looking for 4 -5 concurrent calls?

I mean my gut feel is VoIP and wireless. Hmmm doesnt sound like a good combo?
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Hi Zapo,

Drop me a PM with your contact details and we will see how we can help you and your customer out.
 
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