PC power drops when UPS switches from grid

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Hi there,

LinkQNet 2000va UPS. I've been noticing that when I'm gaming and pulling 600-700w from the wall and the grid power drops and UPS kicks in my entire PC shuts down completely.

I use the UPS to keep the power up so the lithium battery (EcoFlow Delta Max) can switch on because it's not able to switch on fast enough to keep my PC running alone so I use a UPS to make sure the PC stays powered during that initial switching phase.

When the grid power comes back the monitors only go off and come back on. It just seems like the UPS is causing this but not sure if this is related to power draw. I have another 2kva Mecer UPS and it does the exact same thing. Does anyone know why this is?
 
I've replaced the 2x 12v 9ah batteries 3-4 months ago with Forbatt's. And I use an SLA charger to get them up to 13.8v.
 
I doubt it's total power draw related. I don't know/can't find the wattage rating for your UPS, but even if it's garbage in relation to the VA rating it should have capacity for double your draw.

I think more likely is your PSU has a rather short holdup time, and the UPS is taking too long to switch. If this is the case, an online UPS would solve the issue.
 
I doubt it's total power draw related. I don't know/can't find the wattage rating for your UPS, but even if it's garbage in relation to the VA rating it should have capacity for double your draw.

I think more likely is your PSU has a rather short holdup time, and the UPS is taking too long to switch. If this is the case, an online UPS would solve the issue.
The power draw rating for the LinkQNet is 1200w, for the Mecer it's 1200w also. I'll get a Eaton 5E tomorrow which has a 900w rating if that one fails too then I'll need to get an online UPS. Thanks.
 
Hi there,

LinkQNet 2000va UPS. I've been noticing that when I'm gaming and pulling 600-700w from the wall and the grid power drops and UPS kicks in my entire PC shuts down completely.

I use the UPS to keep the power up so the lithium battery (EcoFlow Delta Max) can switch on because it's not able to switch on fast enough to keep my PC running alone so I use a UPS to make sure the PC stays powered during that initial switching phase.

When the grid power comes back the monitors only go off and come back on. It just seems like the UPS is causing this but not sure if this is related to power draw. I have another 2kva Mecer UPS and it does the exact same thing. Does anyone know why this is?
It's those ups. They terrible. They don't do close to rated output. And they can't cope with load. I had a similar issue under load They don't cope.
 
Hi there,

LinkQNet 2000va UPS. I've been noticing that when I'm gaming and pulling 600-700w from the wall and the grid power drops and UPS kicks in my entire PC shuts down completely.

I use the UPS to keep the power up so the lithium battery (EcoFlow Delta Max) can switch on because it's not able to switch on fast enough to keep my PC running alone so I use a UPS to make sure the PC stays powered during that initial switching phase.

When the grid power comes back the monitors only go off and come back on. It just seems like the UPS is causing this but not sure if this is related to power draw. I have another 2kva Mecer UPS and it does the exact same thing. Does anyone know why this is?

Have you tried testing if the PC shuts down with an idle load?

If so then the UPS just doesn't have a fast enough cut over time. My Eaton 2000VA doesnt drop my PC but then again im only pulling about 400W.
 
I'd actually point the blame at your PC Power supply.
It clearly doesnt have a large enough holdup time and is probably using cheap/small capacitors.
What model of PSU do you have?
 
I have the same issue with my PC connected to my inverter. If I am working (Excel etc) then it stays on but if I am playing games the PC restarts.

I have a Corsair RM1000x PSU.
 
Could also be a PSU that supports PFC and the UPS doesn't.
 
Hi there,

LinkQNet 2000va UPS. I've been noticing that when I'm gaming and pulling 600-700w from the wall and the grid power drops and UPS kicks in my entire PC shuts down completely.

I use the UPS to keep the power up so the lithium battery (EcoFlow Delta Max) can switch on because it's not able to switch on fast enough to keep my PC running alone so I use a UPS to make sure the PC stays powered during that initial switching phase.

When the grid power comes back the monitors only go off and come back on. It just seems like the UPS is causing this but not sure if this is related to power draw. I have another 2kva Mecer UPS and it does the exact same thing. Does anyone know why this is?

Does you PC stay on when not gaming?

I know mine does not stay on when gaming, runs fine on UPS when not gaming.
 
I have the same issue with my PC connected to my inverter. If I am working (Excel etc) then it stays on but if I am playing games the PC restarts.

I have a Corsair RM1000x PSU.
Excel sipping power, gaming pushing power to the limits, what size is the inverter?
 
What's your pc specs? Cause that should go to 1440w easily, so really odd, unless the PSU has hiccups
I think the power draw with 3 x TV's and 3 x PC's is just too much on switchover. While playing games my PC drains the inverter in a little more than an hour so maybe it is better that it just restarts.

Just as a matter of interest

Ryzen 2600x
RTX 2080 (non-super)
1 x 38" monitor
2 x 27" monitors
65" TV

Core i5 10600
GTX1080
1 x 32" monitor
1 x 27" monitor
43" TV

And then another 43" TV with a i5 NUC

I am sure between all of them it exceeds the power draw.
 
I think the power draw with 3 x TV's and 3 x PC's is just too much on switchover. While playing games my PC drains the inverter in a little more than an hour so maybe it is better that it just restarts.

Just as a matter of interest

Ryzen 2600x
RTX 2080 (non-super)
1 x 38" monitor
2 x 27" monitors
65" TV

Core i5 10600
GTX1080
1 x 32" monitor
1 x 27" monitor
43" TV

And then another 43" TV with a i5 NUC

I am sure between all of them it exceeds the power draw.
Yeah that'll do it.
 
It's worth noting that most cheap inverters/UPS are offline/standby or line-interactive types.
This uses a small relay to switch from Eishkom power to whatever battery power your inverter is powered by. Most good inverters will have a changeover time on that relay of less than 10ms.


(the best type of inverter to get is an 'online-UPS' which is permanently 'inverting' and avoids most problems of below)

Large home inverters, 3kw+ typically have a large capacitor or two to hold a current buffer during that failover time, depending on how much current you are drawing, the capacitor 'holdup' time will be different.
In the same breath, almost all of your home devices will have some level of capacitor inside of it as well, be it a computer power supply, phone charger, TV power brick, or even the transformer in a microwave can hold a small amount of current to allow for a small mains 'brownout' to not effect the devices operation.

Most PC hardware review sites, when reviewing power supplies will test this holdup time.
ATX Specification is set to be 17ms, which is enough to survive most good home inverters switchover.
Unfortunately, many PSU manufacturers tend to skimp in this regard and may have poorer holdup times, also affected by the age of the capacitors in your computer PSU.


So if your holdup time is 11ms and your inverter takes 10ms to switch, all should be well, right?
Nope. Inverter changeover time is the amount of time it takes the relay to switchover, not the amount of time it takes to start drawing the correct amount of current from the batteries and converting it to AC power at the required amount.

As your line-interactive inverter switches from Eskom to battery, it needs to first energize the circuits that convert battery DC power to AC power for your computer power supply to use.

While energizing, it takes time for the inverter to build up to the correct power levels, and the the more load on the inverter, the more amperage is required, which results in a loss of voltage (Vdroop)

Once the inverter changes over, your PC PSU will also contribute to this with inrush current as it attempts to recharge the capacitors, which can make Vdroop worse from the UPS.

If you were to watch what happens on the AC output side of your inverter with an oscilloscope, you'd see something like the below, where Eskom drops, inverter kicks in, current is drawn from the inverter and it suffers a voltage drop. (I dont have an oscilloscope handy so my crude Mspaint image will do)

For those of us with sunsynk/deye etc inverters powering the house, it's actually this voltage drop that causes your LED lights to flicker during changeover, not the changeover itself. (Cheap LED lights typically do not have capacitors in them for holdup)
1694422314993.png
Devices in the household with a low power draw or good holdup time will survive the first loss of power (eskom) and continue to work through the 2nd loss of power (vdroop)

This Vdroop occurs everywhere in power delivery, from battery->inverter, then again at inverter->computer and again from computer PSU->CPU/GPU
If Vdroop at any of these levels exceeds what the tolerances are for any of the components, your device will shut off.


Once you factor all of these things in, most computer power supplies will handle a short interruption of power under full load, but may not survive the 2nd voltage drop of a cheap inverter under full load.

Here's a snippet of the RM1000X review, showing holdup time:
1694422891725.png

Holdup time there is 23.6ms under full load, under half load you could realistically expect ~38ms, under quarter load you could expect ~50ms, under 0% load you could expect *seconds* of holdup time, that's typically why your motherboard LED stays lit even when you've turned your PSU off.

If you want a longer holdup time, you need to oversize your power supply on your PC, if all your components draw 400W, get an 800W PSU, etc

Alternatively, investing in an 'online' UPS/inverter would shorten the time to operation, allowing a 'to-spec' PSU to achieve its holdup time.

Holdup time will also go down as capacitors age and lose their total energy capacity.



TL;DR: Capacitors in *good* computer PSUs can survive a changeover at full load (gaming), but not a changeover to a unstable power source (cheap inverter) - massively oversize your power supply so it's only at 50-60% use during gaming or get an 'online' type inverter paired with a decent computer PSU.
 
I actually completely forgot about this post. But I did get it solved. The power supply I'm using SuperFlower LEADEX 850w Silver which is most definitely not the issue. I did alot of digging and found that the issue is more surrounding the UPS's themselves.

All 3 UPS's I have Mecer, Eaton and LinkQNet though 3kVA, have 2x12v9ah batteries in them configured in series. If I replace those batteries with some brand new Forbatt 12v9ah batteries they tend to hold up nicely for the 1-2 seconds of 650w power draw until my lithium battery banks switch on (technically 30ms) for a couple of months.
What it comes down to are the ratings of these UPS's that are way too optimistic and even downright lies.

Voltage sag on a 650w load even with these batteries in a series config can at best be sustained for 1-2 seconds. I'm not sure where these manufacturer even got the 1200w rating number they jotted down in the spec sheets.

What I did was charge the batteries up using a makeshift charger, DC PSU with buck booster to clamp voltage at 28.8v and current at 2amp. After 24 hours of charging the resting voltage came to about 26.8v and then I tested a load + grid power drop and the UPS was able to sustain the 600w load for 1-2 seconds for my lithium batteries to kick in.

I also added an XT60 connector to the batteries and the UPS so I could quick-disconnect them to charge in the DC PSU charger to get the up in voltage. The issue is most definitely not that they dont get enough time to charge in the UPS but the UPS's charger itself being total garbage in all of these models.

The only solution to this really is as @Faux_Grey mentions, online UPS to handle these loads without a switching period (relative to the ordinary line interactive UPS's). Though they cost about R8000 minimum so makes it fairly pricey especially for a 1-2 second use per run. I guess maybe replacing the lead acid batteries with those lithium alternatives (LIFEPO4) that is able to hold those types of loads with less of a voltage sag could work too.
 
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Have you tried testing if the PC shuts down with an idle load?

If so then the UPS just doesn't have a fast enough cut over time. My Eaton 2000VA doesnt drop my PC but then again im only pulling about 400W.
Yes I have. It never drops the load at idle which is about 250w.
Your UPS is taking too long to switch.
I definitely don't think it's switching time but the load itself that causes an astronomical voltage drop on the batteries that are not really capable of sustain such loads for longer than a few seconds. Comes down to manufacturer lies on the UPS's themselves not so much the batteries. Forbatt have been pretty straight forward about the spec of their batteries.

I'd actually point the blame at your PC Power supply.
It clearly doesnt have a large enough holdup time and is probably using cheap/small capacitors.
What model of PSU do you have?
Undoubtedly not the power supply, I use a SuperFlower LEADEX 850w Silver though not the greatest, it's not bad either probably doesn't have the same hold up time like the Seasonic equivalents but that's not necessary since these UPS's are rated to switch at 2-6ms but directly to my lithium battery bank which has a switch time of 30ms, is a guaranteed power drop.
 
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My wife and I have different make PC's. When we have brownouts hers shuts down/resets but mine doesn't, so it depends on your power supply.
 
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