PeopleSolved major client win - hiring Usability, PMs, BAs, Developers - CPT

[Shard]

Which industry is this client in?

 

[Sonic2k]

Hmmm...

Wondering when Gekco is going to pull in?

Yeah, did e-mail him, seems to be MIA, will phone later.

 

[Drifter]

Why is this company offering more for developers than BA's? Also where is this company based?

If they're willing to offer me R750k for my 10 years' experience as a BA/SA we can play ball.

So you think BA's should be paid more than developers? Wahahahahahahaha

 

[Ancalagon]

So you think BA's should be paid more than developers? Wahahahahahahaha

Funnily enough, good BAs are more scarce than good developers.

Let me clarify - we have a few BAs working at our company. Most of them don't add any value. The good BAs, however, add a lot of value. Its just that, there aren't many of them.

 

[JackWhite]

Is it normal for BA's to earn more than devs? Another to consider is how much work can a dev do of a BA's VS how much work can a BA do of a dev?

 

[Ancalagon]

Is it normal for BA's to earn more than devs? Another to consider is how much work can a dev do of a BA's VS how much work can a BA do of a dev?

Different skillsets.

The thing is, without a developer, you're not writing code. BAs cannot code. Which means, no product, no delivery, no matter how good your BA is.

BUT, a good BA can ensure that your devs waste less of their time than they otherwise would. I actually think being a BA is a difficult role to do well - but a very easy role to do poorly.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

Troll

What? Care to give me a proper response?

 

[Gekco]

Uhm, no thanks.
You guys are labour brokers, and you screwed over a mate of mine a few years back.

They are indeed labour brokers. Had a horrible experience with them and would not recommend them to anyone.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

So you think BA's should be paid more than developers? Wahahahahahahaha

Oh, you as well? In what industry are you two working? :wtf:

 

[CamiKaze]

@YingYang,

I guess the gripe that developers have is that we had to study things that are extremely hard like main stream Maths, Applied Math, Stats, Computer Science and various other things as part of our degree.

For BA, you study stuff that are much easier in comparison, like Information Systems.

At the end of the day; as a developer, you ask yourself WTF did I study so hard for to get paid less than someone that have meetings with others to create a word document as a spec sheet for the developer.

Now you can blow a gasket or whatever by defending the actual work that you do and yes, maybe you are a good BA but... I feel robbed.

http://programmers.stackexchange.co...t-managers-get-higher-salaries-than-programme

 

[Ancalagon]

@YingYang,

I guess the gripe that developers have is that we had to study things that are extremely hard like main stream Maths, Applied Math, Stats, Computer Science and various other things as part of our degree.

For BA, you study stuff that are much easier in comparison, like Information Systems.

At the end of the day; as a developer, you ask yourself WTF did I study so hard for to get paid less than someone that have meetings with others to create a word document as a spec sheet for the developer.

Now you can blow a gasket or whatever by defending the actual work that you do and yes, maybe you are a good BA but... I feel robbed.

http://programmers.stackexchange.co...t-managers-get-higher-salaries-than-programme

Around here, we call the bad BAs waiters. Ie, they take the clients order, write it down for them, and get the client to sign. Thats it. Half of them cant even do that well.

The majority of BAs are like that - waiters.

The good ones are a lot rarer, they actually analyse a client's business. I don't mind good BAs getting a lot of money, because they make developer's lives easier.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

You made a comment the other day, but I see you edited it and just posted the word "Troll", which I took offense to. I ignored your initial comment but I felt I had to defend my question with proof.

I studied NDip - IT: Technical applications where amongst my modules were C++, Java, C# and even assembler.

Now, using the above knowledge I gained 3 years' experience programming C# and C++.

Through my ^ company I then did various courses at FTI and eventually got head hunted by another company as a systems analyst. I prefer to call myself an SA as opposed to a BA as I prefer to debug and analyse code, but I also have experience as a pure BA, drawing up technical designs using UML and object oriented design methodologies.

That being said, we have one person who's also a BA who knows absolutely jack schit and cant do a thing without making a mess out of it. So yes, some people really are paper pushers.

edit:this post was aimed at CamiKaze

 

[Sonic2k]

It seems it will always be the case... those that push paper:
Accountants, BAs, PMs, and others that get to lord over people who work their balls off, will always get paid more than the people who make the actual products that sell. It is a global phenomenon. Its always a good excuse, blame the workers when the company falters, but never the project managers, or the BAs and definitely not the accountants.

The days of really good managers, people like Robert Noyce, et, al are truly long gone..

 

[JackWhite]

The good ones are a lot rarer, they actually analyse a client's business. I don't mind good BAs getting a lot of money, because they make developer's lives easier.

LIke you say they are much rarer than good devs. So now we have a greater amount of useless BA's getting devs to do and undo work and still get paid more than them

 

[cguy]

@YingYang,

I guess the gripe that developers have is that we had to study things that are extremely hard like main stream Maths, Applied Math, Stats, Computer Science and various other things as part of our degree.

For BA, you study stuff that are much easier in comparison, like Information Systems.

At the end of the day; as a developer, you ask yourself WTF did I study so hard for to get paid less than someone that have meetings with others to create a word document as a spec sheet for the developer.

Now you can blow a gasket or whatever by defending the actual work that you do and yes, maybe you are a good BA but... I feel robbed.

http://programmers.stackexchange.co...t-managers-get-higher-salaries-than-programme

Do developers that actually do jobs that require all of those skills also earn less than BAs? I doubt it. I think that the 225k number in that survey comes from the mass of "developers" that do things like website front ends, etc. wherever I've worked the PMs (BAs don't seem to exist) are on a different scale, and are usually paid a lot less than the experienced developers.

 

[CamiKaze]

Do developers that actually do jobs that require all of those skills also earn less than BAs? I doubt it. I think that the 225k number in that survey comes from the mass of "developers" that do things like website front ends, etc. wherever I've worked the PMs (BAs don't seem to exist) are on a different scale, and are usually paid a lot less than the experienced developers.

I am a bit confused with that first question of yours.

I might be wrong but are you asking if developers use what we have learned in the courses (Math, Applied Math, etc.) that I mentioned?

 

[cguy]

I am a bit confused with that first question of yours.

I might be wrong but are you asking if developers use what we have learned in the courses (Math, Applied Math, etc.) that I mentioned?

Exactly. There are plenty of Devs, who just take up an arbitrary job after their CS qualification, and then find that they're easily replaceable a few years down the line and have a salary to match.

 

[CamiKaze]

Exactly. There are plenty of Devs, who just take up an arbitrary job after their CS qualification, and then find that they're easily replaceable a few years down the line and have a salary to match.

No you don't really use it but my argument was about how as a Computer Science student, you studied your m@er off with difficult subjects and my thinking back then was that if you studied something hard you would really be making the big bucks. Then you finally get a job and some guy that studied something much easier like Information Systems becomes a BA and earns much more. So my lament is a bit detached from the original argument.

However, those modules do stretch your mind in the learning phases and gives you a better understanding of things later in life, when you are faced with something complex.

I think that the career path for a CS student should lead up to Software Architecture or maybe Development Managers and not stuck as code monkeys.

 

[crackersa]

It seems it will always be the case... those that push paper:
Accountants, BAs, PMs, and others that get to lord over people who work their balls off, will always get paid more than the people who make the actual products that sell. It is a global phenomenon. Its always a good excuse, blame the workers when the company falters, but never the project managers, or the BAs and definitely not the accountants.

The days of really good managers, people like Robert Noyce, et, al are truly long gone..

That's so true. Cause developers never under estimate, misunderstand client requirements, allow scope creep. Developers are mostly one man shows and don't even need a CEO cause they are just that good

 

[DA-LION-619]

No you don't really use it but my argument was about how as a Computer Science student, you studied your m@er off with difficult subjects and my thinking back then was that if you studied something hard you would really be making the big bucks. Then you finally get a job and some guy that studied something much easier like Information Systems becomes a BA and earns much more. So my lament is a bit detached from the original argument.

However, those modules do stretch your mind in the learning phases and gives you a better understanding of things later in life, when you are faced with something complex.

I think that the career path for a CS student should lead up to Software Architecture or maybe Development Managers and not stuck as code monkeys.

Sorry this made me laugh.