Polygraph testing only one employee

I don't want to be the pessimist here, but there seems to be more to this than what meets the eye.

It...just...doesn't...make sense!!!
 
If the cops are pushing for a confession it probably means they have no evidence.

plbartie said:
Attorney tried to get her out today, did all he could. Police officer in charge did not complete papers so there's nothing they can do for her today, honestly I think he did it on purpose.
Click to expand...
Definitely sounds like some prime oinkers.

carstensdj said:
Would it help the situation if the OP's gf mentions the fact that another employee was in the office on the same morning, but nothing was ever raised with her?
Click to expand...
In regard to the police she should say absolutely nothing. Once arrested the police should be considered the enemy and every word that comes out of their mouths a lie until proven otherwise.

Surely the cops can see that this "stinks" as OP's gf is new in the company and the only one being investigated even when other employees, not to mention builders and contractors were on-site too?
Click to expand...
It's possible they've been lied to by the employer. Or that he knows someone in the police.

GhostSixFour said:
I think further down the line you'll find out somewhere the owner of the business is friends with someone high-up in that police station and they pulled in a favour to get her to "confess". BS tactics.. But I doubt the police would do this all on their own.
Click to expand...
That is quite possible. I've seen other arrests intended primarily as intimidation.
 
noxibox said:
That is quite possible. I've seen other arrests intended primarily as intimidation.
Click to expand...

Do you think that given the "Safety" in police cells and the prevalence of HIV, there's a case here for assault and/or attempted murder?
 
Ancient methods for trying to determine a persons honesty include the sangoma’s shaking of bones and the soothsayer’s reading of entrails. Modern-day versions of this dream of divination include the polygraph and the voice stress analysis.

Let this be made clear: in South African employment law, neither of these “tests” (and I use the word very loosely) can on their own prove the guilt or innocence of a person accused. Not even if an employment contact requires the undergoing of such a test, does a “failure” or “deception“ absolve an employer of the requirement to prove misconduct using other evidence. At best, a polygraph can provide one piece of the entire jigsaw puzzle that is the evidence before a presiding officer.

Oh, of course the peddlers of these tests will tell you how reliable they are, and even testify to that effect. What they generally fail to deal with, is the simple fact that reputable independent academic psychological testing conducted according to very strict scientific method procedures, shows them to be unreliable and inconsistent to a significant degree.

The Labour Appeal Court has held that even if their use is agreed upon in the employment contract, the reason for the test must still be rational. Commissioners (ahem) of the CCMA have, for example, reinstated security guards who were “retrenched” for failing random polygraph tests, insisted upon in the contract between client companies and the security company. The conduct of the employer, arising from the contract, was held to be in that respect, a violation of public policy and unfair.

If you want to have some fun with a polygraph or voice stress analysis tester, ensure he straps you in and sets himself up, and then before he kicks off, casually mention that you hope the beta-blocker medication you are currently using does not affect his test. Then enjoy his frustration, as he unhooks you and has to face the prospect of no fee for the day. This is the best way to avoid a polygraph or VSA.

Poor little high - tech shaman…although I’m sure these types wish that water-boarding of employees under investigation was legal.

If you have other definitive proof that you are not guilty, like being absent that day…and want to have some fun…
With a polygraph, stick a drawing pin in your shoe, and press on it with your big toe every time they ask you a question, near the end of the question, before your answer. Or if you have no drawing pin, just clench your anal sphincter up at the same point in the question. Sniff hard, a lot, and mumble, and say you don’t understand the question can they please repeat it. Look frightened and submissive, even if you are about to burst with laughter.
Click to expand...

From a friend who is a CCMA commissioner.
 
grav80 said:
I don't want to be the pessimist here, but there seems to be more to this than what meets the eye.

It...just...doesn't...make sense!!!
Click to expand...


exactly my thoughts. no one can just be arrested on hearsay or on some test that has been conducted within hours and a second opinion been bought into question.
 
Celine said:
exactly my thoughts. no one can just be arrested on hearsay or on some test that has been conducted within hours and a second opinion been bought into question.
Click to expand...


Really?....

I've seen people being arrested on suspicion alone... or just because they happen to be in the wrong area according to a policeman...
 
Sinbad said:
If you have other definitive proof that you are not guilty, like being absent that day…and want to have some fun…
With a polygraph, stick a drawing pin in your shoe, and press on it with your big toe every time they ask you a question, near the end of the question, before your answer.
Click to expand...
From a friend who is a CCMA commissioner.
Click to expand...

This was on Mythbusters, doesn't work.
 
It's nice that some people are so trusting of the police, but experience says they do arrest people with no evidence, on false charges and so on.
 
noxibox said:
It's nice that some people are so trusting of the police, but experience says they do arrest people with no evidence, on false charges and so on.
Click to expand...

oh yes they do, around 2years ago, my gf's mom and dad were getting a divorce, she apparently went to his workshop and his new gf was there. the mom apparently flipped out and started beating up the new gf and they got into a fight, the dad tried to seperate them. Later that night the mom went to the police station and laid assault charges against the dad and gf and her son and his gf (bit of a long story) anyway that same night the cops arrested them all WITHOUT proof. They only got bailed after the weekend and no proof was ever found (im fairly certain the mom was lying and according to my gf her dad has never even hit them before never mind lay a finger on a woman) so yea the police are the ENEMY and they always will be.
 
m4dh4tt3r said:
oh yes they do, around 2years ago, my gf's mom and dad were getting a divorce, she apparently went to his workshop and his new gf was there. the mom apparently flipped out and started beating up the new gf and they got into a fight, the dad tried to seperate them. Later that night the mom went to the police station and laid assault charges against the dad and gf and her son and his gf (bit of a long story) anyway that same night the cops arrested them all WITHOUT proof. They only got bailed after the weekend and no proof was ever found (im fairly certain the mom was lying and according to my gf her dad has never even hit them before never mind lay a finger on a woman) so yea the police are the ENEMY and they always will be.
Click to expand...

With all due respect here, the enemy is actually the person hurling the false accusations around. The police were just doing their job. You'd be even more critical if they ignored something like this and someone was killed while they ignored it.
 
The police do routinely arrest & torture people without warrant and solid evidence in this country. ****ing piggy bully boys. And when reported they drag their feet on the investigation hoping the victim gives up and they can sweep it under the carpet.
 
Sinbad said:
With all due respect here, the enemy is actually the person hurling the false accusations around. The police were just doing their job. You'd be even more critical if they ignored something like this and someone was killed while they ignored it.
Click to expand...
Correct, but they do indeed arrest people based on false charges.

plbartie said:
They locked her up, just came from the police station. Got a lawyer involved, borrowed money to pay for him. They threatening her at the police station, saying she must just admit then all will be dropped.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty standard lie the police tell suspects. If she'd been accused along with others they'd separate them and then tell each one that whoever confessed first would get off.

They also really do the good cop-bad cop thing.

Shes now there for purgery, as her first statement did not match up with the second one. Something about going into the kitchen before going downstairs.
Click to expand...
Most people will recount events slightly differently each time. Human memory is not reliable, particularly under stress. Some people can recount events exactly the same way each time, although that can also get them into trouble if they're dealing with someone who assumes it's an indication of fabrication.
 
I want to clarify the use of polygraph testing as evidence. The first general principle is that anything is admissible as evidence until the court decides otherwise. Defending or attacking this evidence in court depends on whether it is 1) constitutional, 2) illegally obtained, 3) what/how it contributes to the case. Therefore polygraph tests are admissible as evidence. There is no constitutional law that prevents these tests, and they are generally not illegally obtained. The big question of course is how it contributes to the case. Without any other hard evidence it is simply suspicion, and the court does not convict on suspicion alone.

If your employment contract specifically states that you may be subjected to polygraph testing then you can not refuse. If your contract does not specifically have such a clause, then you may refuse. Legally such refusal is not an admission of guilt, and is not grounds for dismissal. A polygraph test is never proof that a person is lying, it is merely an indicator that there may be deception.
 
McRuder said:
I want to clarify the use of polygraph testing as evidence. The first general principle is that anything is admissible as evidence until the court decides otherwise. Defending or attacking this evidence in court depends on whether it is 1) constitutional, 2) illegally obtained, 3) what/how it contributes to the case. Therefore polygraph tests are admissible as evidence. There is no constitutional law that prevents these tests, and they are generally not illegally obtained. The big question of course is how it contributes to the case. Without any other hard evidence it is simply suspicion, and the court does not convict on suspicion alone.

If your employment contract specifically states that you may be subjected to polygraph testing then you can not refuse. If your contract does not specifically have such a clause, then you may refuse. Legally such refusal is not an admission of guilt, and is not grounds for dismissal. A polygraph test is never proof that a person is lying, it is merely an indicator that there may be deception.
Click to expand...

I think thats pretty much what people are saying here... its admissible as evidence, but it needs to be backed up by other evidence... as for it being an indicator that there may be deception... its also possible an indicator that the person was stressed, freaked out, etc etc etc...

A polygraph is notoriously unreliable if you ask me.
 
McRuder said:
A polygraph test is never proof that a person is lying, it is merely an indicator that there may be deception.
Click to expand...
No it isn't an indicator of anything. It's nothing. Flip a coin, use your magic stick or ask the dead for help. All good ways to get an indication of deception.
 
plbartie said:
Attorney tried to get her out today, did all he could. Police officer in charge did not complete papers so there's nothing they can do for her today, honestly I think he did it on purpose. Attorney sat down with her and explained to her what is going on and that he'll be there 7:45 tomorrow morning to get her out. I saw her at visiting hours at 18:30, took her some food, warm clothes. Shes supposed to get her salary tomorrow, don't know if that's going to happen.
Hopefully they will, otherwise I'm also screwed.
She is now charged with prejudice, housebreak and theft.
Shes 23 years old, and got her whole life in front of her.
I hope that everything will turn out OK. I wont be getting much sleep tonight.
We got some legal assistance now so he can help us in our decisions depending on the situation.
Thanx for all the support guys, its been hell for us.
Click to expand...

Managed to get her out yet? And did they pay her salary. If not, your lawyer needs to step up big time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X