Portable Power Stations

[leon.davibe]

Are there any (or do you have) general recommendations as to what brands or specific models of 5kw inverters and 5kwh batteries to go for in a setup like this? Like something that can be hooked up together in a temporary trolley setup and permanently installed at a later stage.
It's very logical (at least to me) to do it in steps like this if one can't afford a permanent install right off the bat. The portable power stations with UPS features are just convenient due to being all in one, compact, not very noisy, easy to hookup to loads, etc. You're dead right about it not being a great value proposition for people who don't require the portability though.

geewiz tend to use the axpert units mecer etc

it depends on budget, if you know you will do a permanent insatll at some point i would say buy a luxpower or any device on the approved list of cape town

as many say at some point most municipalities will adopt the same stance

for tight budget i would just use kodak or similar axpert models
i would go for a kodak or any model that segen supplies as they sell spares if needed in future

lithium i have no idea, have not seen many batteries open though most use the same seplos type bms (which are equaly crappy imo)
the cell manufacturers there is only a handfull in china so cell wise you will get the same cells in most batteries

where the big difference comes in is warrantee and cell matching so assume the pricier brands you may get better quality control

though i doubt it, warrantee you may be luckier with a bigger brand name though

 

[Park@82]

some of the trolley setups that geewiz and others sell is wall mount units just mounted on a box
and some trolley all in one units are exactly that axpert guts inside a case with a battery presenting as a single unit

literally nothing stops you from doing a wall mount unit as a trolley setup

just disable the bypass function in the menu of any 3kw or less unit
the 5kw unit you would have to pay attention not to exceed the plug if using a plug as input, ie limit load+charging to max 3500w

There are a lot of reasons for why I would choose a portable unit like EcoFlow over a bulky inverter strapped to a trolley. Yes, they are more expensive but they do have a lot of other things going for them.

I am looking at this unit as example and trying to compare it with a Delta 2 Max : https://www.geewiz.co.za/inverter-t...-with-lithium-battery-3000-cycles-2560wh.html

It has 2x 12v 100ah batteries. What is the max discharge current for those batteries?
I Googled 12v Hubble batteries and they seem to have a max discharge current of 100a. They connect these in series so that is 25.6v x 100ah = 2560W. So will that unit be able to output 3000W? Or are they using higher output batteries?

How long does it take to recharge it to 100% form completely flat?
They don't say unless I overlooked it.

 

[abc98]

Comments on this? Very cheap..

Search results for: 'switched 1000w professional ups power station'

www.incredible.co.za

 

[leon.davibe]

There are a lot of reasons for why I would choose a portable unit like EcoFlow over a bulky inverter strapped to a trolley. Yes, they are more expensive but they do have a lot of other things going for them.

I am looking at this unit as example and trying to compare it with a Delta 2 Max : https://www.geewiz.co.za/inverter-t...-with-lithium-battery-3000-cycles-2560wh.html

It has 2x 12v 100ah batteries. What is the max discharge current for those batteries?
I Googled 12v Hubble batteries and they seem to have a max discharge current of 100a. They connect these in series so that is 25.6v x 100ah = 2560W. So will that unit be able to output 3000W? Or are they using higher output batteries?

How long does it take to recharge it to 100% form completely flat?
They don't say unless I overlooked it.

There is a mecer 3000va/2400w which is perfect for the 100ah setup

Hubble also has a S120 (edit was mistaken the s120 is also 100a draw) that would be close enough for the 3000w models

Different models have different charge currents i think that specific mecers have 20/30A so max charge rate of 750w would mean 3.5hrs from fully depleted

Have seen 24v models with 60a charge rate from AC that would halve that

 

[Park@82]

Hubble also has a S120 that would be close enough for the 3000w models

So you'll get 2560W continuous max form it and not 3000W?

 

[leon.davibe]

Comments on this? Very cheap..

Search results for: 'switched 1000w professional ups power station'

www.incredible.co.za

On the special price maybe for people on a budget

The cycles says 1200 so the lithium is 3.7v nmc cells based ie shorter life than lifepo4

The charge time of 6H would mean that you would only be able to recharge about 60% of the capacity in a 4hrs charge stint ie in a 4hrs off 4hrs on 4hrs off

So only about 600wh will be available for second 4hrs if flat the first session

So if your load is less than 120w you can survive on this device

Imo this device is intended for people that only want a lithium UPS to keep critical devices on in short breaks of supply waiting for generator to come on or other such use cases (with the slow recharge time)

For load shedding use i would skip this and look for a lifepo4 based unit

 

[leon.davibe]

So you'll get 2560W continuous max form it and not 3000W?

Edit just double checked the s120 and it is 100ah max discharge and not 120 as i assumed it would be with 120ah capacity

So yea you would be limited to 2.5kw on the 3kw models until you expand the battery bank with extra parallel batteries

Or you have yo look for a higher AH battery with more than 120a discharge capacity

Though most people wont use that much
Since the battery will be flat in an hour

Most nurse the 3kw unit to carry the 2hrs (max 1100w load to make it through)


And with 4hrs session max 550w or you won't make it through the shedding

Having panels changes that naturally

 

[Park@82]

There is a mecer 3000va/2400w which is perfect for the 100ah setup

Hubble also has a S120 that would be close enough for the 3000w models

Different models have different charge currents i think that specific mecers have 20/30A so max charge rate of 750w would mean 3.5hrs from fully depleted

Have seen 24v models with 60a charge rate from AC that would halve that

Do you think this is a fair comparison?

Detla 2 Max vs 3000VA Mecer Axpert Pure Sine Inverter + 2x 100Ah LITHIUM Battery Trolley:

Detla 2 Max pros:
1. Portability: 22kg vs 56kg. Also a lot smaller in terms of dimensions.
3. mppt charge controler vs pwm.
5. 5 year warranty vs 2-3 year.
4.A fantastic display that tells you how how long the battery will last at the current load. A
It also tells you how long it will take to recharge.
5. Wifi Bluetooth and a great app that allows you to control it over the internet or locally, allows you to setup automations, allows you to set solar and AC charging priority. Allows you to get low battery notifications on your phone etc. And this also allows for firmware and feature updates. The app can do a lot more but there are too much to list all of it here.
6. Multiple output ports e.g. 12v, USB, 100w type c ports and multiple ac sockets.
7. Charges faster (up to 2300w - charge rate can be set via the app).

3000VA Mecer Axpert unit pros:
1. Cheaper (R7500)
2. Slightly higher output wattage ~2500w output vs 2400w.
3. Bigger capacity 2560wh vs 2048wh.
4. Replaceable batteries.
5. User repairable to an extend.

 

[abc98]

On the special price maybe for people on a budget

The cycles says 1200 so the lithium is 3.7v nmc cells based ie shorter life than lifepo4

The charge time of 6H would mean that you would only be able to recharge about 60% of the capacity in a 4hrs charge stint ie in a 4hrs off 4hrs on 4hrs off

So only about 600wh will be available for second 4hrs if flat the first session

So if your load is less than 120w you can survive on this device

Imo this device is intended for people that only want a lithium UPS to keep critical devices on in short breaks of supply waiting for generator to come on or other such use cases

For load shedding use i would skip this and look for a lifepo4 based unit

I'm looking for exactly that, a UPS on a network rack. There is backup power (inverter and batteries) in place, but when there's maintenance taking place or an issue with the inverter, I need something to handle the rack.
Currently a 650va lead acid ups in there so no issues with load.
I actually need a real ups rather than a power station with ups functionality added as an afterthought

 

[leon.davibe]

Do you think this is a fair comparison?

Detla 2 Max vs 3000VA Mecer Axpert Pure Sine Inverter + 2x 100Ah LITHIUM Battery Trolley:

Detla 2 Max pros:
1. Portability: 22kg vs 56kg. Also a lot smaller in terms of dimensions.
3. mppt charge controler vs pwm.
5. 5 year warranty vs 2-3 year.
4.A fantastic display that tells you how how long the battery will last at the current load. A
It also tells you how long it will take to recharge.
5. Wifi Bluetooth and a great app that allows you to control it over the internet or locally, allows you to setup automations, allows you to set solar and AC charging priority. Allows you to get low battery notifications on your phone etc. And this also allows for firmware and feature updates. The app can do a lot more but there are too much to list all of it here.
6. Multiple output ports e.g. 12v, USB, 100w type c ports and multiple ac sockets.
7. Charges faster (up to 2300w - charge rate can be set via the app).

3000VA Mecer Axpert unit pros:
1. Cheaper (R7500)
2. Slightly higher output wattage ~2500w output vs 2400w.
3. Bigger capacity 2560wh vs 2048wh.
4. Replaceable batteries.
5. User repairable to an extend.

Don't get me wrong those are beautiful units ie it is the ferrari of portable units

But not all people can afford a ferrari

With R26k
I would buy a 24v unit that has much bigger solar capacity for 15k

Solar Warehouse SA

Solar Warehouse SA

solarwarehousesa.com

And then ad an additional 2.5kwh with what's left over

Fivestar 25.6V 100AH 2.56Kwh Lithium Battery LiFePO4

Fivestar 25.6V 100AH 2.56Kwh Lithium Battery LiFePO4 Specifications: Model : FS-D01-24100Usable Capacity : 2560WhNominal Voltage : 25.6VVoltage Range : 21.6-29.6Max Charge Current : 30AMax Continuous Discharge Current :60AMax Output Power : 1536WRecommend Output Power : 1200WDOD : 95%Parallel...

solarwarehousesa.com

So now for my R26k i got 5.2kwh
And solar capacity enough to carry the load and recharge the battery

And ports don't matter cause i use all the normal outlets at home

If you later add panels most homes especially if you have gas cooking 3.5kw is enough to see you live a normal life bar the limitation of one heating device limit while load shedding

Though i would just buy a 5kw package if going the full 26k meaning 2 heating devices in shedding

This fancy portable unit is for people that want the same convenience while on holiday or camping they have at home already

ie this would be a rich guys second car

If this is your first car when rich it is like buying a 2 seater for a family as the main car imo

 

[leon.davibe]

I'm looking for exactly that, a UPS on a network rack. There is backup power (inverter and batteries) in place, but when there's maintenance taking place or an issue with the inverter, I need something to handle the rack.
Currently a 650va lead acid ups in there so no issues with load.
I actually need a real ups rather than a power station with ups functionality added as an afterthought

Then this device is perfect especially if the family cause a overload trip not knowing it is shedding

Keeping critical devices on

The slow charge times then doesn't matter and gives you additional runtime reserve for this critical device only but can use other devices if needed

If you can catch it on special
If not a big lifepo4 battery on existing ups will perform the same

Only problem is many aren't intended for long runtime needs a fan

 

[wingnut771]

Then this device is perfect especially if the family cause a overload trip not knowing it is shedding

Keeping critical devices on

The slow charge times then doesn't matter and gives you additional runtime reserve for this critical device only but can use other devices if needed

If you can catch it on special
If not a big lifepo4 battery on existing ups will perform the same

Only problem is many aren't intended for long runtime needs a fan

How much power does a network rack need?

 

[leon.davibe]

How much power does a network rack need?

Depends on hardware /load

Many have some servers running if they are to the point of having a rack

So depends on hardware used
And the load naturally

If you hear a rack server start up you know this isn't going to be power bill friendly

Had a free zeon server chomping 160w idling
Back when internet was capped
At current rates that is R300 a month

It was caching all the flash pages and other content the kids was playing on

And i paid no attention to it until the power prices went of the rails

And the. Kill-a-watt and hunting down low hanging fruit

I replaced it with a j1800 board system

160w to 20w R40 a month after

 

[Park@82]

Don't get me wrong those are beautiful units ie it is the ferrari of portable units

But not all people can afford a ferrari

With R26k
I would buy a 24v unit that has much bigger solar capacity for 15k

Solar Warehouse SA

Solar Warehouse SA

solarwarehousesa.com

And then ad an additional 2.5kwh with what's left over

Fivestar 25.6V 100AH 2.56Kwh Lithium Battery LiFePO4

Fivestar 25.6V 100AH 2.56Kwh Lithium Battery LiFePO4 Specifications: Model : FS-D01-24100Usable Capacity : 2560WhNominal Voltage : 25.6VVoltage Range : 21.6-29.6Max Charge Current : 30AMax Continuous Discharge Current :60AMax Output Power : 1536WRecommend Output Power : 1200WDOD : 95%Parallel...

solarwarehousesa.com

So now for my R26k i got 5.2kwh
And solar capacity enough to carry the load and recharge the battery

And ports don't matter cause i use all the normal outlets at home

If you later add panels most homes especially if you have gas cooking 3.5kw is enough to see you live a normal life bar the limitation of one heating device limit while load shedding

Though i would just buy a 5kw package if going the full 26k meaning 2 heating devices in shedding

This fancy portable unit is for people that want the same convenience while on holiday or camping they have at home already

ie this would be a rich guys second car

If this is your first car when rich it is like buying a 2 seater for a family as the main car imo

Bad analogy.

The portable units are more versatile in many ways e.g I like that I can pick my unit up and take it to work so that I can charge it when I have an outage at home. I like that I can take it along when on holiday or when visiting family.

Not everyone has the same needs as you do.

People that rent do want more outlets because they can't connect it to the db board.

Some of us want it portable so that it can be moved between rooms.

People that rent tend not to care much about more solar input wattage because they can't install roof top panels at home.

Some may not need a 5kwh battery in a single unit for their day to day use case. Personally, I prefer many smaller units instead of 1 large unit.

Some of us would prefer a more aesthetically pleasing form factor that won't look too much out of place in the living room.

Some if us want to be able to the smart features that come with some of the portable units like EcoFlow.

 

[leon.davibe]

Bad analogy.

The portable units are more versatile in many ways e.g I like that I can pick my unit up and take it to work so that I can charge it when I have an outage at home. I like that I can take it along when on holiday or when visiting family.

Not everyone has the same needs as you do.

People that rent do want more outlets because they can't connect it to the db board.

Some of us want it portable so that it can be moved between rooms.

People that rent tend not to care much about more solar input wattage because they can't install roof top panels at home.

Some may not need a 5kwh battery in a single unit for their day to day use case. Personally, I prefer many smaller units instead of 1 large unit.

Some of us would prefer a more aesthetically pleasing form factor that won't look too much out of place in the living room.

Some if us want to be able to the smart features that come with some of the portable units like EcoFlow.

Agreed one glove does not fit all

Use case matters
And like you say in areas like jhb and other metros the portability can be a life saver in the event of longer outage

5kwh really isn't portable at all

2kw is though

i have kids gaming pc's in the mix (2)

And that alone chomps between 2-2.5kwh running full tilt in a 4hrs shedding

So yea my perspective is capacity tainted

 

[abc98]

Then this device is perfect especially if the family cause a overload trip not knowing it is shedding

Keeping critical devices on

The slow charge times then doesn't matter and gives you additional runtime reserve for this critical device only but can use other devices if needed

If you can catch it on special
If not a big lifepo4 battery on existing ups will perform the same

Only problem is many aren't intended for long runtime needs a fan

Only issue is the reviews aren't the best for it

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[abc98]

How much power does a network rack need?

Depends on what's in there... If it's huge servers with powerful Cpu's and hard drives, that can reach many KW of power, that's a different ball game altogether.

I've just got a small rack with a router,
24 port PoE switch, fibre ONT, NAS, Two raspberry pis. That's it.

 

[leon.davibe]

Only issue is the reviews aren't the best for it

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South Africa's leading online store. Fast, reliable delivery to your door. Many ways to pay. Shop anything you can imagine: TVs, laptops, cellphones, kitchen appliances, toys, books, beauty & more. Shop the mobile app anytime, anywhere.

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Yea 9k is way too much for a 1kwh battery imo

The 4k price on special maybe since you are getting the inverter/ups with it

I think the other problem is also the slow recharge so most will inch towards empty

To be honest if it is just for solar inverter trips
I would just use a normal lead acid ups
Or install a custom lithium battery in a normal pc ups (preferably one of the 2000va units that has a fan)

 

[Park@82]

Do you think this is a fair comparison?

Detla 2 Max vs 3000VA Mecer Axpert Pure Sine Inverter + 2x 100Ah LITHIUM Battery Trolley:

Detla 2 Max pros:
1. Portability: 22kg vs 56kg. Also a lot smaller in terms of dimensions.
3. mppt charge controler vs pwm.
5. 5 year warranty vs 2-3 year.
4.A fantastic display that tells you how how long the battery will last at the current load. A
It also tells you how long it will take to recharge.
5. Wifi Bluetooth and a great app that allows you to control it over the internet or locally, allows you to setup automations, allows you to set solar and AC charging priority. Allows you to get low battery notifications on your phone etc. And this also allows for firmware and feature updates. The app can do a lot more but there are too much to list all of it here.
6. Multiple output ports e.g. 12v, USB, 100w type c ports and multiple ac sockets.
7. Charges faster (up to 2300w - charge rate can be set via the app).

3000VA Mecer Axpert unit pros:
1. Cheaper (R7500)
2. Slightly higher output wattage ~2500w output vs 2400w.
3. Bigger capacity 2560wh vs 2048wh.
4. Replaceable batteries.
5. User repairable to an extend.

I just wanted to add something with regards to charging: Why charge speed and the ability to set charge rate is important to me:

During a prolonged outage I use my inverter generator to charge my Ecoflow units.

1. Fast charging means I can get a battery back to 100% in a minimal amount of time, then there is no need to run the generator for any longer than the time it takes to charge a battery...

2. The ability to set the charge rate on the fly is very useful because you can use any size inverter generator to charge it. If your generator can only output x Kwh, you just need to adjust the charge wattage to accommodate your generator. The app makes this very easy and you dont need to calculate amps x volts etc.

If I want to charge multiple of my units simultaneously via the generator I can adjust the charge speed on all of them to make sure that I do not overload my generator.

 

[Bundu]

I just wanted to add something with regards to charging: Why charge speed and the ability to set charge rate is important to me:

During a prolonged outage I use my inverter generator to charge my Ecoflow units.

1. Fast charging means I can get a battery back to 100% in a minimal amount of time, then there is not need to run the generator for any longer than the time it takes to charge a battery...

2. The ability to set the charge rate on the fly is very useful because you can use any size inverter generator to charge it. If your generator can only output x Kwh, you just need to adjust the charge wattage to accommodate your generator. The app makes this very easy and you dont need to calculate amps x volts etc.

If I want to charge multiple of my units simultaneously via the generator I can adjust the charge speed on all of them to make sure that I do not overload my generator.

and a generator is more efficient at a higher load