poweralert stage 2.....

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porchrat said:
They're also required to pay, whether they use that power or not.

In an ideal world the diesel spend should stop at some point.
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Diesel usage is supplementary where as powerships will be integrated into the grid while maintenance can go ahead unabated
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
Diesel usage is supplementary where as powerships will be integrated into the grid while maintenance can go ahead unabated
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That's my point.

They're not comparable. They serve different functions.

The idea of paying for constant supply at the same amount Eskom does for something that's supposed to be for emergencies is just insane. I honestly don't think it helps your point, quite the contrary.
 
porchrat said:
@10:10 you need some sort of consumer pulling amps to actually consume the electricity. Eskom can't just decide to send you more electricity to make the meter move quicker. It doesn't work like that.
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Yup and if you don’t understand amps; think of it like a tap. Water is in the pipes; but you have to actually open the tap before JHB water will start billing you.
 
Priapus said:
Yup and if you don’t understand amps; think of it like a tap. Water is in the pipes; but you have to actually open the tap before JHB water will start billing you.
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You do, sometimes though water doesn't come out, but rather air and that still costs you. Cause it works on a silly fly wheel
 
porchrat said:
That's my point.

They're not comparable. They serve different functions.

The idea of paying for constant supply at the same amount Eskom does for something that's supposed to be for emergencies is just insane. I honestly don't think it helps your point, quite the contrary.
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But its comparable, why pay 30bill for supplementary use when you can have constant and sustainable energy
You seem like you just want to complain for either option, at some point a decision has to be made, plug the holes with diesel or go for the powerships
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
But its comparable, why pay 30bill for supplementary use when you can have constant and sustainable energy
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The idea is that the supplementary resource shouldn't be used constantly.

Now you're just taking a technology pretty much identical to that supplementary diesel resource and using that instead. Except now Eskom doesn't own it and has to pay regardless of whether they use it or not. It's stupid.

Pak Fa Fui said:
You seem like you just want to complain for either option, at some point a decision has to be made, plug the holes with diesel or go for the powerships
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I simply don't see the logic in using the powerships. It also stinks of corruption. The way these politicians keep trying to squeeze it in any way they can while Eskom itself doesn't want it.

How about Eskom fixes the massive pile of broken units with a competent workforce and end up with enough MWs to prevent loadshedding with an 8GW buffer or so. Then build their own generating units IN HOUSE to prepare for the future.

Is it honestly too much to ask that Eskom be competently run instead of mired in corruption, mismanagement and technical ineptitude?

I'd prefer that Eskom have the expertise to build their own power generating system, instead of being such a shell of what it once was that it needs to rely on external contractors that take advantage of the greedy, corrupt morons leading it, like happened with those largely useless Kusile and Medupi stations.

Heck honestly I'd prefer they just let the private sector do it. Eskom has already very clearly demonstrated that it can't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Heck, take the MASSIVE amount this would cost over 20 years and just put it towards building our own generating capacity. Perhaps not through Eskom but something non-government. Let the funds be handled by a trusted third party because if it's done through government you end up with another Kusile.
 
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porchrat said:
The idea is that the supplementary resource shouldn't be used constantly.

Now you're just taking a technology pretty much identical to that supplementary diesel resource and using that instead. Except now Eskom doesn't own it and has to pay regardless of whether they use it or not. It's stupid.


I simply don't see the logic in using the powerships. It also stinks of corruption. The way these politicians keep trying to squeeze it in any way they can while Eskom itself doesn't want it.

How about Eskom fixes the massive pile of broken units with a competent workforce and end up with enough MWs to prevent loadshedding with an 8GW buffer or so. Then build their own generating units IN HOUSE to prepare for the future.

Is it honestly too much to ask that Eskom be competently run instead of mired in corruption, mismanagement and technical ineptitude?

I'd prefer that Eskom have the expertise to build their own power generating system, instead of being such a shell of what it once was that it needs to rely on external contractors that take advantage of the greedy, corrupt morons leading it, like happened with those largely useless Kusile and Medupi stations.

Heck honestly I'd prefer they just let the private sector do it. Eskom has already very clearly demonstrated that it can't organise a piss up in a brewery.
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Well then wake up, we are here now, none of the CEOs have been able to maintain the power plants and keep the lights on let alone fix the other broken units and find generation in those units, one of the very well known CEOs left medupi and Kusile off
Powerships at least allows for time and creates its own buffer for long term maintenance and fixing
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
Well then wake up, we are here now, none of the CEOs have been able to maintain the power plants and keep the lights on let alone fix the other broken units and find generation in those units, one of the very well known CEOs left medupi and Kusile off
Powerships at least allows for time and creates its own buffer for long term maintenance and fixing
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1.2GW isn't a buffer, it's barely a stage of shedding, we need 6 times that as a buffer to fix things.
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
6GW is enough, right now we only have 2GW, with powership we can push to have 5,2GW, which will be sufficient, some power plants just need a 3 months spring clean
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Your math is really really awful. 1.2 + 2 is 3.2, also we don't run the OCGTs all the time, we only run them when needed, the power ships we'd be paying for them even if we don't use them. They are also not ours so they can be removed at any time and we'd still pay for them. Horribly expensive for what we get, the ANC is basically just doing it to line their own pockets as usual.
 
Lupus said:
Your math is really really awful. 1.2 + 2 is 3.2, also we don't run the OCGTs all the time, we only run them when needed, the power ships we'd be paying for them even if we don't use them. They are also not ours so they can be removed at any time and we'd still pay for them. Horribly expensive for what we get, the ANC is basically just doing it to line their own pockets as usual.
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You keep saying this, who do you think will not keep to their part of the deal and why
As for expensive, R15 billion a year for the ships is cheaper than almost every other option available
 
Pak Fa Fui said:
Well then wake up, we are here now, none of the CEOs have been able to maintain the power plants and keep the lights on let alone fix the other broken units and find generation in those units, one of the very well known CEOs left medupi and Kusile off
Powerships at least allows for time and creates its own buffer for long term maintenance and fixing
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All I hear is "Eskom can't handle it and the government failed us". The logical approach at that point is to take it out of government and Eskom's hands then. Privatise. Otherwise the problem will just continue ad infinitum. Sell off Eskom for pennies on the dollar if you have to.

Fix the actual problems at Eskom. Get rid of the dead weight, get Eskom competent and functional again. Get rid of the corruption in the ANC government and in Eskom.

This is just throwing your hands up in the air and going "nope, we can't fix it, we're all too inept" and paying someone else a fortune to do it for us. Why should the SA public accept that? Why are you accepting that? Why should more of my tax money go towards covering for ineptitude?

The decades of incompetence and corruption have to be paid for at some point. This is just trying to delay that inevitable conclusion.

I'd rather the money being thrown into this corrupt money pit go towards cleaning up the real issue.

EDIT: BTW, plenty of Eskom CEOs managed to fix power plants and keep the lights on. Just not the recent ANC appointed ones. Eskom did fine for 80 years before the ANC came along.
 
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Pak Fa Fui said:
You keep saying this, who do you think will not keep to their part of the deal and why
As for expensive, R15 billion a year for the ships is cheaper than almost every other option available
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15 Billion a year over 20 years, that's both Kusile and Medupi, who even broken have generated more power then these will. Plus they are ours and cannot just decide to sail away.
 
porchrat said:
Now you're just taking a technology pretty much identical to that supplementary diesel resource and using that instead. Except now Eskom doesn't own it and has to pay regardless of whether they use it or not. It's stupid.
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This.

This is what people don't get. Or they just don't want to understand.
 
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