Prayer doesn't work - dominee

JungleBoy

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Prayer doesn't work - dominee
2011-03-01 11:28



Dominee Albert Cruywagen discusses his beliefs about prayer, and how it should be reinterpreted in a way that works. (Wayne Coetzee, Beeld)

Neels Jackson, Beeld
Johannesburg - Praying in terms of requests to God doesn't work, believes Dominee Albert Cruywagen of the NG Church Riebeeck Park in Kempton Park.

That is why he says the church should reconsider the issue of prayer as it does other issues of faith.

As an example, Cruywagen mentioned the prayer that God should protect you in your car on the road.

It doesn't work like that, he said, as he knows of three families who prayed to God to protect their children and each of these three families had lost two children in road accidents.

In the same way it doesn't make sense to him to pray for rain.

Meditation

He doesn't believe that God interferes in weather systems. There are huge natural forces determining these.

Cruywagen pointed out that this doesn't mean he wants to stop praying, but that these prayers should be supplemented with other content.

If you go onto the road, he explained, you have to be alert. That is why you must pray that the Lord will make you careful.

"Actually I'm therefore talking to myself," said Cruywagen. Prayer is to him inherently a discussion between the self and God as the listener.

Seen like this, prayer is very meaningful to him. In the same way as the Eastern tradition of meditation, he believes people should spend more time alone with God.

Prayer is to him one of many religious concepts which need new interpretation "in a way that works".

How people understand God

At the heart of the matter is the way in which people understand God. He has stepped away from the traditional theistic view of God, which many religious people still hold, and has called his approach a new theistic view.

Cruywagen does not think, however, that he is undermining the church - on the contrary. Whereas some people see his views as the Trojan horse within the NG Church, he thinks of it as the knight on the white horse coming to the rescue the church.

For instance, he knows young people who want nothing to do with the church, but in a different way want to hold on to God. They can relate to his way of thinking.

He said he still stands by the Bible as the word of God and the confession of faith.

Although he sometimes gets some ugly opposition from Christians, he says his congregation understand him and are not bothered by his manner of thinking and praying.

Link
Don't mean to stir but this dominee is just too smart for his job.
I remember having a heated debate with a friend at varsity who would rather attend an intersession of praise and worship instead of spending the time studying for exams. Needless to say he failed dismally and later wondered why God did not intervene.
 
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The phrase "God helps those who help themselves" springs to mind.

The problem with this view though is that this seems a lot like his god is starting to interfere in free will if he can give people the ability to be more alert or more strong-willed to resist ciggies or something it opens up more choices or paths that were not previously there. I thought he wasn't supposed to do that. It opens a whole new can of worms. Or am I wrong here? :confused:
 
An old joke.

2 weeks before an exam you should study as if praying doesn't help.
2 days before an exam you should pray as if studying doesn't help.
 
Link
Don't mean to stir but this dominee is just too smart for his job.
I remember having a heated debate with a friend at varsity who would rather attend an intersession of praise and worship instead of spending the time studying for exams. Needless to say he failed dismally and later wondered why God did not intervene.

Well I've found my local NG Church to focus a lot more on meditation the last few years, we even have a meditation chapel. The problem with many traditional Christians is that they still believe the term meditation refers to Eastern Religion and is not Christian.

Then again, I also believed this until one day a South African Politcian mentioned in Parliement, "Prayer is when you speak to God, Meditation is when you listen to Him".
 
Prayer doesn't work??

Wow, next thing you'll be telling me that there's no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny either, that it's just my parents giving me presents!

LIES! Filthy lies!
 
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Prayer doesn't work??

Wow, next thing you'll be telling me that there's no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny either, tha't it's just my parents giving me presents!

LIES! Filthy lies!

Does this mean the Tooth Fairy does not exist?

sniff :cry:
 
Prayer doesn't work??

Wow, next thing you'll be telling me that there's no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny either, tha't it's just my parents giving me presents!

LIES! Filthy lies!

LOL...you forgot the tooth fairy :D

Edit . Schit...I have to type faster :D
 
I'm glad the dominee has this view point. Prayer to me has always been about being greatful for what you received and asking for the strength, wisdom and endurance to tackle the tasks you need to complete tomorrow.

But I won't go as far to say that people who pray for physical things (like protecting their kids from road accidents) are doing so fruitlessly. What will happen WILL happen. It takes a few years to realize how interconnected the decisions we make and how it actually affects our future and how things just seem to WORK OUT in the end.

Praying for protection for your kids sets your mind/subconscious at ease and it generates a positive vibe going outward into the universe (so to speak). However, if you pray for yourself to be protected on a journey (again, as the example), I agree that changing that prayer to "help keep me alert so that I can arrive safely at my destination" would do much better for your subconscious/conscious mind.

This is the basics of positive self-speak. For example, instead of saying "I'm going to lose 10 kg in 3 months" you should go "I'm healthier and thinner and 10kg lighter" the "lose" is the keyword and your sub conscious LOVES negative keywords like those which sets you up for failure.

Group prayers can be a wonderful thing if done right with the right choices in words. But yes, it is a form of meditation you should apply with those positive words (changing a few things as mentioned) and it will just all fall in place and make sense after you see the affect it has on you.
 
I'm glad the dominee has this view point. Prayer to me has always been about being greatful for what you received and asking for the strength, wisdom and endurance to tackle the tasks you need to complete tomorrow.

But I won't go as far to say that people who pray for physical things (like protecting their kids from road accidents) are doing so fruitlessly. What will happen WILL happen. It takes a few years to realize how interconnected the decisions we make and how it actually affects our future and how things just seem to WORK OUT in the end.

Praying for protection for your kids sets your mind/subconscious at ease and it generates a positive vibe going outward into the universe (so to speak). However, if you pray for yourself to be protected on a journey (again, as the example), I agree that changing that prayer to "help keep me alert so that I can arrive safely at my destination" would do much better for your subconscious/conscious mind.

This is the basics of positive self-speak. For example, instead of saying "I'm going to lose 10 kg in 3 months" you should go "I'm healthier and thinner and 10kg lighter" the "lose" is the keyword and your sub conscious LOVES negative keywords like those which sets you up for failure.

Group prayers can be a wonderful thing if done right with the right choices in words. But yes, it is a form of meditation you should apply with those positive words (changing a few things as mentioned) and it will just all fall in place and make sense after you see the affect it has on you.

So it's no different to psyching yourself up? If that's the case then you don't need a GOD for that...
 
I still think if you believe strongly enough..... your prayer's will be answered......
 
An old joke.

2 weeks before an exam you should study as if praying doesn't help.
2 days before an exam you should pray as if studying doesn't help.

Another one:

Praying that God will give you a bicycle doesn't work, so rather steal the bike and ask for forgiveness :p
 
Two hands working accomplish more than a 1,000 clasped in prayer. The sooner humanity realises this, the sooner we can start making some true progress.

I still think if you believe strongly enough..... your prayer's will be answered......

Do you have a PowerBalance bracelet?
 
I prefer talking to a wall (as opposed to praying) at least its there...
 
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