Private solar power embarrasses Eskom

[Mike Hoxbig]

I cannot concede the point when we're in a factually far worse position, today.

We can and would have been in a far worse off position. We would get some power stations, maybe in 20-30 years time.

But if you factor in the macroeconomic damage that adding R1trn (definitely more) to our debt burden would cause in the short to medium term.

People are already struggling financially with the country's existing debt burden, of which interest alone is R420bn annually (let alone the actual repayment amount), which is 20% of all government expenditure. How much more do you think this would be if you add R1trn of debt?

All these debt payments mean you have to take away money from infrastructure development in the rest of the country. So we get some power stations in a few decades, and by then the rest of the country would have collapsed and everyone would be too poor anyway...

 

[LCBXX]

We can and would have been in a far worse off position. We would get some power stations, maybe in 20-30 years time.

But if you factor in the macroeconomic damage that adding R1trn (definitely more) to our debt burden would cause in the short to medium term.

People are already struggling financially with the country's existing debt burden, of which interest alone is R420bn annually (let alone the actual repayment amount), which is 20% of all government expenditure. How much more do you think this would be if you add R1trn of debt?

All these debt payments mean you have to take away money from infrastructure development in the rest of the country. So we get some power stations in a few decades, and by then the rest of the country would have collapsed and everyone would be too poor anyway...

You and Hanno sound like those haters on Twitter who are flaming Helen Zille's JHB-mayor thing "because it will be worse".

 

[RaptorSA]

I loathe the fact that I've had to spend hundreds-of-thousands of Rands importing and installing solar bullshyte so that I don't have to live with power cuts.

All because our Overlords must pander to climate and anti-nuclear-energy activism, whilst breathlessly exporting our abundant resources of coal to Europe and China, and looting Eskom to the tune of R1m per hour, 24/7.

Coal burning has devastated the croplands in Mpumalanga, and I don't even want to know how many people in that area have died prematurely from decades of pumping poison into the air and ground. It will take decades, if not centuries to recover.
Advocating for keeping coal burning around is madness. Even in the 80's and 90's that area was famous for being on the top of the global list for acid rain.

Mines’ destruction of Mpumalanga crop farms

28 November 2023 Open-pit coal mines have irreversibly changed the character of the fertile highveld of Mpumalanga. Peet Bezuidenhout, a

www.africanfarming.com

Current global policy puts global warming projections at 2.7 degrees at the end of the century.
You can knee-jerk about global warming all you want, but it's a thing and SA is a dry country that's going to face tons of challenges in the future if we keep blasting through climate tipping points.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

You and Hanno sound like those haters on Twitter who are flaming Helen Zille's JHB-mayor thing "because it will be worse".

No my argument is based on facts, the people flaming Zille are doing it on emotion.

The fact is we're already over-indebted and struggling to grow the economy because of ANC policy. This would have compounded the problem. To grow the economy you don't just need reform to policy, you also need to develop your infrastructure to support growth and cater for an increasing population. This would have further limited spending on the rest of our infrastructure based on the current numbers. Spending now for 30 years is pointless when you will struggle to get through those 30 years...

 

[denmendez65]

I thought the whole solar stopping load-shedding has been discussed already? Didnt a MBB article from last week say that 24GWH of battery has been imported into SA between 2019 and 2024? Can someone explain how this stopped load shedding if peak demand is some 30GW in the evening and maybe some 25 or 20 in the morning?

I get how solar will reduce load shedding during the day but surely noone actually thinks 24GWH can stop it between 5pm and 8am? Did we not have loadshedding in the mornings before? If we somehow assume the 24GWH can supply a 3rd of peak power requirement for the grid for 3 hours? What about the morning then?

Didnt we also have data that shows the demand is basically the same since 2015? And that the demand between this year and the last 2 years is within 1/2GW of each other? So how exactly did peak demand drop because of solar?

If we are saying solar stopped load shedding, has anyone checked the weather yesterday and today? Or are we saying the solar plants are all over the country so if one area gets rain/cloud cover like joburg today and yeseterday the other plants are still supplying?

I would like to hear input on these points if possible. I have solar btw before I get hammered that I am anti solar. I also want to buy and electric motorcycle and car in the near future so definitely not anti green etc.

 

[LCBXX]

Coal burning has devastated the croplands in Mpumalanga, and I don't even want to know how many people in that area have died prematurely from decades of pumping poison into the air and ground. It will take decades, if not centuries to recover.
Advocating for keeping coal burning around is madness. Even in the 80's and 90's that area was famous for being on the top of the global list for acid rain.

Mines’ destruction of Mpumalanga crop farms

28 November 2023 Open-pit coal mines have irreversibly changed the character of the fertile highveld of Mpumalanga. Peet Bezuidenhout, a

www.africanfarming.com

Current global policy puts global warming projections at 2.7 degrees at the end of the century.
You can knee-jerk about global warming all you want, but it's a thing and SA is a dry country that's going to face tons of challenges in the future if we keep basting through climate tipping points.

Who's been brought to account for this devastation? Surely this can at least be a catalyst for urgently moving to nuclear electricity generation over coal and importing expensive solar panels/batteries?

 

[LCBXX]

No my argument is based on facts, the people flaming Zille are doing it on emotion.

The fact is we're already over-indebted and struggling to grow the economy because of ANC policy. This would have compounded the problem. To grow the economy you don't just need reform to policy, you also need to develop your infrastructure to support growth and cater for an increasing population. This would have further limited spending on the rest of our infrastructure based on the current numbers. Spending now for 30 years is pointless when you will struggle to get through those 30 years...

I could take your point if there was an account of all the money that was, and is, being loaned for renewable nonsense, together with the billions already spent by private individuals and businesses to import expensive solar panels/batteries.

 

[Hanno Labuschagne]

I thought the whole solar stopping load-shedding has been discussed already? Didnt a MBB article from last week say that 24GWH of battery has been imported into SA between 2019 and 2024? Can someone explain how this stopped load shedding if peak demand is some 30GW in the evening and maybe some 25 or 20 in the morning?

I get how solar will reduce load shedding during the day but surely noone actually thinks 24GWH can stop it between 5pm and 8am? Did we not have loadshedding in the mornings before? If we somehow assume the 24GWH can supply a 3rd of peak power requirement for the grid for 3 hours? What about the morning then?

Didnt we also have data that shows the demand is basically the same since 2015? And that the demand between this year and the last 2 years is within 1/2GW of each other? So how exactly did peak demand drop because of solar?

If we are saying solar stopped load shedding, has anyone checked the weather yesterday and today? Or are we saying the solar plants are all over the country so if one area gets rain/cloud cover like joburg today and yeseterday the other plants are still supplying?

I would like to hear input on these points if possible. I have solar btw before I get hammered that I am anti solar. I also want to buy and electric motorcycle and car in the near future so definitely not anti green etc.

No one is saying private solar or battery power is carrying all the grid's demand; that has never been disputed.

However, the presence of solar and batteries in the system that were not there previously is helping reduce demand to the point where Eskom does not have to implement load-shedding.

24GWh of storage can theoretically cut two stages of load-shedding over a 12-hour period. Over the four-hour evening peak, it could reduce demand by 6,000MW.

It has also reduced how much Eskom needs to use its emergency generation reserves outside peak times — Eskom is on record about this.

That has meant that reserve levels don't drop to the point where load-shedding is needed over the weekend to recover in preparation for next week.

 

[Unhappy1]

I thought the whole solar stopping load-shedding has been discussed already? Didnt a MBB article from last week say that 24GWH of battery has been imported into SA between 2019 and 2024? Can someone explain how this stopped load shedding if peak demand is some 30GW in the evening and maybe some 25 or 20 in the morning?

I get how solar will reduce load shedding during the day but surely noone actually thinks 24GWH can stop it between 5pm and 8am? Did we not have loadshedding in the mornings before? If we somehow assume the 24GWH can supply a 3rd of peak power requirement for the grid for 3 hours? What about the morning then?

Didnt we also have data that shows the demand is basically the same since 2015? And that the demand between this year and the last 2 years is within 1/2GW of each other? So how exactly did peak demand drop because of solar?

If we are saying solar stopped load shedding, has anyone checked the weather yesterday and today? Or are we saying the solar plants are all over the country so if one area gets rain/cloud cover like joburg today and yeseterday the other plants are still supplying?

I would like to hear input on these points if possible. I have solar btw before I get hammered that I am anti solar. I also want to buy and electric motorcycle and car in the near future so definitely not anti green etc.

Have you considered that solar power in the day has allowed Eskom to replenish reserves during this time to be used in the evenings/mornings?

Also you talk about how demand hasn't gone up, have you considered the likelihood that solar is a reason for that?

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that solar power is the sole reason we no longer have load shedding, Eskom plant performance has played a role too. Just that solar has assisted.

 

[Neuk_]

 

[LCBXX]

Have you considered that solar power in the day has allowed Eskom to replenish reserves during this time to be used in the evenings/mornings?

Also you talk about how demand hasn't gone up, have you considered the likelihood that solar is a reason for that?

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that solar power is the sole reason we no longer have load shedding, Eskom plant performance has played a role too. Just that solar has assisted.

I'm curious as to these Eskom reserves that everyone keeps talking about.

What are these reserves? Hydropower? Standby gas turbines?

 

[Unhappy1]

I'm curious as to these Eskom reserves that everyone keeps talking about.

What are these reserves? Hydropower?

Pumped storage schemes and diesel reserves at the turbines.

 

[denmendez65]

24GWh of storage can theoretically cut two stages of load-shedding over a 12-hour period. Over the four-hour evening peak, it could reduce demand by 6,000MW.

It has also reduced how much Eskom needs to use its emergency generation reserves outside peak times — Eskom is on record about this.

That has meant that reserve levels don't drop to the point where load-shedding is needed over the weekend to recover in preparation for next week.

The only issue with the first statement is that there is no significant measured reduction in the peak (if you can count 1/2GW as significant).

The improvement in emergency reserves with pumped storage, yes i can get behind that. That would make a dent in loadshedding which solar can help with if allows eskom the opportunity to improve its reserves during the times when solar is taking away from Eskoms generation. That is a point I never considered.

 

[denmendez65]

Have you considered that solar power in the day has allowed Eskom to replenish reserves during this time to be used in the evenings/mornings?

Also you talk about how demand hasn't gone up, have you considered the likelihood that solar is a reason for that?

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that solar power is the sole reason we no longer have load shedding, Eskom plant performance has played a role too. Just that solar has assisted.

First point agreed.

Second point I disagree because it has been fairly consistent since 2005 if im not mistaken. The economy hasnt been growing so the demand just isnt increasing. For every new suburb coming up there is a big industrial power consumer disappearing.

The reserves point is what I can 100% get behind. Solar would definitely allow them to do their pumping since they dont have to focus on supplying the grid as much.

 

[LCBXX]

I hope those Eskom reserves are ready because I am going to need it in about 4 hours when the women arrive home.

 

[Unhappy1]

I hope those Eskom reserves are ready because I am going to need it in about 4 hours when the women arrive home.
View attachment 1850980

Do you drain your batteries to below 20%?

 

[LCBXX]

Do you drain your batteries to below 20%?

Yes. Down to 5%.

EDIT: I paid for 100%, not 80% capacity. The 5% is there because they kept giving me shiit about the warranty if I drained it 100%.
5% gives me around 3500 cycles on the batteries which is 9-years anyway.

 

[denmendez65]

I hope those Eskom reserves are ready because I am going to need it in about 4 hours when the women arrive home.
View attachment 1850980

I checked my base load now and its 70W (Pool pump and fish pond pumps are off). I have used since midnight today 1.83Kwh, I have generated till now just over 2kwh. My batteries were at 80% in the morning (They did fully charge yesterday despite the weather) so I suspect they will be almost full by the time I get home. My wife is at home today but she works off a laptop and I am surprised it uses so little if my current load is only 70W.

 

[aleksandar]

Batteries carried us through yesterdays peak time till morning and soon they will be back at 100%.
Yesterday we produced 25.6kWh.
All neighbours around me have solar and plenty in our neighbourhood, like every a*** I have opinion that private solar made difference.

 

[LCBXX]

When will we be ready do talk about the depreciation rate of solar panels/batteries?

Should be an interesting one for those who believed solar is an investment.