Programmer/Developer getting old

cguy said:
As a matter of interest, can you tell us why? I personally have found it good to move between dev and management, I've now gone dev -> magement -> dev -> management -> dev in my career. I found it very useful to see things from the management side, but I really like the fact that I'm not locked there by salary requirements (by virtue of working outside SA the last 10 years). I've found management to be a good break from dev, and dev to be a good break from management (for entirely different reasons :) ).
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Because I've already just about reached the cap of my earning potential - getting only 3-4% increases, in fact - the most I earned was in 2007... just before I changed to a new company.

I just don't see a 40+ year dev getting paid well - I've also seen guys 40-60 still doing development, its sad.

I'll either start a consulting company - or who knows what - but I don't see myself in these shoes at 40.
 
^ This

It's important to see other aspects of the industry. I've been in dev, QA/little management, dev/analyst, dev and dev/lead. I enjoy some roles more than others for various reasons.

30+yo devs that are slower to grasp are the ones that have stopped learning and have become complacent. I guess the same can be said for 20+yo ones. Younger devs also tend to think they know everything, and as they become older they realise that they don't. But maybe I shouldn't generalise. :D
 
xrapidx said:
Because I've already just about reached the cap of my earning potential - getting only 3-4% increases, in fact - the most I earned was in 2007... just before I changed to a new company.

I just don't see a 40+ year dev getting paid well - I've also seen guys 40-60 still doing development, its sad.

I'll either start a consulting company - or who knows what - but I don't see myself in these shoes at 40.
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Sorry to hear that. :( That is one of the primary reasons I left SA (I hit peak dev salary when I was 27).
 
kripstoe said:
Younger devs also tend to think they know everything, and as they become older they realise that they don't. But maybe I shouldn't generalise. :D
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Sounds about right.

I hate it when they ask you a question and then just won't shut up and let you finish explaining. Even worse when they ask for your help, you tell them how or what to do and then they argue with you that you are wrong. Last time this happened I stopped him and asked if he had read the spec...conversation ended :D
 
cguy said:
Sorry to hear that. :( That is one of the primary reasons I left SA (I hit peak dev salary when I was 27).
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Peaking at 27? WTF?!! Either you sucked or had VERY bad luck.
 
lol... you guys are funny. :)

My Dad retired at 63 - still coding. Was a software engineer at Sentech. He headed up Dbn Sentec for a while in an acting position to fill in for the manager that left. After 4 months he was offered the position as permanent and turned it down. Wanted to get back to his desk and fiddle with code.
And for fun - on retirement - he still codes. Less... But still something he enjoys.

Me - at 41 - love coding. I keep up to date with latest technologies and spend free time brushing up skills. And not because I need to keep on top of things to stay employed - I do it because I enjoy it. It's fun.

I see myself coding less when my kids are done with school as I do enjoy having my nights to jam XBox or fiddle with some or other project. But currently I work days and evening to keep the income going. Bonus is that I enjoy coding, so not an issue to work such long days.

I ran my own dev house for a few years and ended up hating it. I wanted to code. Not manage. Lead dev works for me, but not managing outright. Boring as hell. I eventually gave it up and just consult.

I have to admit that I do take a little longer to get things done compared to my younger peers, but on the flip side of the coin I also have a lot less bugs and maintenance of my code is easier further down the line. So in the long run, the experience wins.

If you can't keep up, then I suppose a management role is the way forward. ;)

EDIT: Last line just taking a dig at the real ballies :) :) Don't get personal on me now.
 
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cguy said:
Sorry to hear that. :( That is one of the primary reasons I left SA (I hit peak dev salary when I was 27).
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I'm not too worried - I'm paid very well :) And will reach my target salary I was aiming for by 35 (I had targets from when I started 12 years ago, I missed the 30 target, but will make the 35)... but after that I don't think it'll go much further, hence the requirement for change.
 
Hamster said:
Peaking at 27? WTF?!! Either you sucked or had VERY bad luck.
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To clarify: That meant that I earned way more than anyone else I knew - close to 2x the industry average at the time. I was, and still am very good, but it's hard to earn more when you are pushing the industry ceiling. It's like earning 800K-1M today, I suppose. Good luck getting to 1.25M.
 
semaphore said:
As harsh as this may sound i have found older people tend not to grasp things as fast as younger developers.
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Ageism is illegal in the UK. I work with some devs in their 60's. one bloke is 69. Sharp as a razor. Age is not a factor. Individual competence is. We have devs over the whole age spectrum. The youngest are in the early 20's. majority are between 30 and 40.

It's to the detriment of SA companies that they exclude people based on age. I thought there was a skills shortage in SA? Stupid attitude. I would suggest these folks leave the country and go where their skills are appreciated.
 
xrapidx said:
I'm not too worried - I'm paid very well :) And will reach my target salary I was aiming for by 35 (I had targets from when I started 12 years ago, I missed the 30 target, but will make the 35)... but after that I don't think it'll go much further, hence the requirement for change.
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Just out of curiosity what is your target salary PM?
 
xrapidx said:
1mil in today's money.
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You will be hard pressed to find a company paying that much, unless its a very large software house with a very large client. And the only company that comes to mind was a previous employer of mine. And that's if you've been there for a good few years and are a very critical component to the company.

But while i know i wont hit that bracket at my current employer myself and a colleague have started our own dev company on the side as well.
 
semaphore said:
You will be hard pressed to find a company paying that much, unless its a very large software house with a very large client. And the only company that comes to mind was a previous employer of mine. And that's if you've been there for a good few years and are a very critical component to the company.

But while i know i wont hit that bracket at my current employer myself and a colleague have started our own dev company on the side as well.
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Its two years... I don't think I'll struggle. You're basing your assumption while not knowing what I currently earn.
 
xrapidx said:
Its two years... I don't think I'll struggle. You're basing your assumption while not knowing what I currently earn.
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True. Well good luck :)

However with your idea of nulls i wouldnt pay you that much money ;) just saying..
 
semaphore said:
True. Well good luck :)

However with your idea of nulls i wouldnt pay you that much money ;) just saying..
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That says a lot about you, not me.... I standby what I said, and specifically in datawarehousing, nulls are not recommended.

Like I said previously, it is application specific.
 
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xrapidx said:
That says a lot about you, not me.... I standby what I said, and specifically in datawarehousing, nulls are not recommended.

Like I said previously, it is application specific.
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Datawarehousing perhaps but in normal application database design its essential. But in anycase you do what you need to do to earn the big bucks :)
 
Its a fairly pointless discussion (for me) - which is why I didn't comment much in the previous thread - people have been arguing both points for ages, with both sides always thinking they're right.
 
xrapidx said:
Its a fairly pointless discussion (for me) - which is why I didn't comment much in the previous thread - people have been arguing both points for ages, with both sides always thinking they're right.
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Agreed. I'll PM you in two years to see if you got your million :)
 
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