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Not looking good for XB on hometurf ATM. I wonder if Starfield will make a more than one month difference?
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PS5 Dominates in the States
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Mike Hoxbig
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The third metric is missing. Number of game streaming subscribers. Starfield is just a taste of things to come while the other two dither about with hardware sales.
And this should be concerning as a gamer, we need Sony and Nintendo to start competing in this space before they lose before they even get started...
username and 23 others
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I think it's too early to give streaming the crown. MS's streaming users seems to have plateaued (I forgot from where I read that - but it was revealed from some official, Phil Spencer or someone like that). The US is the majorest market in the world, and normally not selling hardware equates to bad software sales. If the XB numbers were good that means more ppl subscribing/buying games. The current situation echoes my buddy Phil's statement: maybe they really did flatline? The downward trend of XB is not good in the US.
[Achtung! PS5 seems to be dominating in Germany too, as per my pal Jimbo Ryan]
Starfield is a good step in the right direction for a mega-exclusive. Hopefully not carrying unrealistic sales expectations baggage.
There's just too much info missing from the US 'sales data'. Man, I miss the NPD days of old.
[Achtung! PS5 seems to be dominating in Germany too, as per my pal Jimbo Ryan]
Starfield is a good step in the right direction for a mega-exclusive. Hopefully not carrying unrealistic sales expectations baggage.
There's just too much info missing from the US 'sales data'. Man, I miss the NPD days of old.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
You can’t give anyone the crown without having all the numbers.
And comparing hardware sales is living in the last since you don’t need the hardware to be at the top.
Just look at Apple beating them all TOGETHER without even being considered a contender in the gaming space.
The truest headline of all is that Apple is leading the (console) gaming space without even taking part, which is why it doesn’t make the headlines as it doesn’t fit the narrative.
These numbers are useless when they look at the numbers for their pre-determined victor.
Hardware is utterly irrelevant in 2023.
username and 23 others
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These are console gaming "sales data". Yeah, Circana does also supply the Mobile software sales "data" in their monthly report. And for the purpose of sales data (for console gaming of which Apple is not a part), HW numbers still matter in twenty-twenty-three (moreso SW as Mike alluded to).
No one is having agendas with "narrative" and "pre-determined victor" (WTFLoL!). I thought ze gamerz have long buried that type of stuffz in ze pazt, yez?
No one is having agendas with "narrative" and "pre-determined victor" (WTFLoL!). I thought ze gamerz have long buried that type of stuffz in ze pazt, yez?
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Yes for now all is good on the hardware side. There was a time when hardware and platform had a 1:1 correlation, but that's no longer the case.
10 years from now we can revisit this conversation, because we've seen it play out before. Platform reach is something that pretty much nobody does better than MS, and they will utterly dominate unless you get in early.
People never bought IBM etc so they could run Corel Draw, they bought Windows to run Corel Draw. Right now Sony is sitting with the content. They should be thinking how can I get my content onto as many devices as possible, not how can I ship more Playstations so that I can sell my content. Unless they want to become the next IBM...
Lupus
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IBM is doing fine, currently almost double Sonys share price
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Yes they've pivoted and are doing well now. But in the 60s and 70s they were the dominant tech company. They crashed hard in the 80s and had to start downsizing and restructuring their operations in the 90s to allow them to shift focus.
If they didn't, they would be dead in the water. From where they were, to where they found themselves in the 90s would have been a hard pill a swallow. Where a band of garage nerds effectively usurped them to become the dominant tech company.
The question is if Sony finds themselves in that position, would they be able to change course to remain relevant...
prod
Executive Member
Not sure how you can come to this conclusion? Sony and Nintendo are doing very well on hardware, how does that make it irrelevant?
Look, I'm as much of an Apple fan as the next guy but come on mate. No one considers Apple as part of the console gaming space because it's stupid to. Apple doesn't make their own games neither do they have a dedicated gaming device nor do they invest into gaming tech like Sony, MS or any other gaming centred company (Epic etc). They are first in 'making money' because of their App Store policies - that's it.
AlphaJohn
Honorary Master
Competition is good.
Buy all 3 and let the OEM's fight it out for access to my wallet
Oh and I'll leave this here:
developer.apple.com
developer.apple.com
Buy all 3 and let the OEM's fight it out for access to my wallet
Oh and I'll leave this here:
Game Center Overview - Apple Developer
Game Center is Apple’s social gaming network. Learn about GameKit APIs and adding Game Center capabilities to your games.
Apple Arcade
Apple Arcade is a game subscription service that gives customers unlimited access to a growing collection of over 200 premium games on the App Store.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
As a measure of who is leading the race. Obviously not as a concept.
Exactly my point it all depends on how you want to measure you can put anyone at the top.
In sheer gaming linked revenue Apple is destroying them all.
In hardware Sony is “winning” but at what cost? We know they don’t subsidise hardware like they used to but I’m sure there is some price levelling happening regardless.
Presumably Microsoft is winning the cloud streaming space for a lack of competition.
Point is without all the numbers presented together it’s impossible to call anyone a winner or come to any conclusions.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Your statement was “PS5 dominates in the States” and I illustrated how that’s simply not true based on the lack of data.
You also stated it’s not looking good for Xbox, while completely ignoring their vision of not being focused on hardware…while only using hardware as a metric.
So your very thread title chose a narrative and pre-determined a victor without the data to support it.
Another example if every PS5 console sale only averages 1 software sale, but every Xbox sold averages 1 perpetual Game Pass sub and Nintendo sells two games per Switch who is really dominating?
And again why isn’t Apple the one dominating? Just because it’s a subscription and not a sale?
End of the day the point is that the metrics are broken and don’t match the modern day landscape.
prod
Executive Member
Oh and I'll leave this here:
Game Center Overview - Apple Developer
Game Center is Apple’s social gaming network. Learn about GameKit APIs and adding Game Center capabilities to your games.Apple Arcade
Apple Arcade is a game subscription service that gives customers unlimited access to a growing collection of over 200 premium games on the App Store.
And what do those two things really mean? You know they don't actually develop the games on Apple Arcade themselves right? I would say Metal and game porting toolkit are better examples of investing into gaming tech than those.
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Jean Claude Vaaldamme
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You forget that PS holds all the cards. They have the best games and console for 2 decades if not longer. Their sales say they don't need the best game subscription services(yet). They can make it as good as they feel necessary. Why give more than you have too, when in a runaway lead?
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Here’s something to consider and reflect on how broken the old school metrics are.
If 3,000,000 people go and buy a 3 month Game Pass subscription to play Starfield in August (about what it costs to buy the game) and 500,000 buy it outright it will be considered a dismal failure compared to the likes of Remnant 2 in July.
Yet it will have made four times more in revenue and had more direct consumer engagement.
Which one actually did better? The answer is obvious but it’s not going to be reported as such.
If 3,000,000 people go and buy a 3 month Game Pass subscription to play Starfield in August (about what it costs to buy the game) and 500,000 buy it outright it will be considered a dismal failure compared to the likes of Remnant 2 in July.
Yet it will have made four times more in revenue and had more direct consumer engagement.
Which one actually did better? The answer is obvious but it’s not going to be reported as such.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
The irony of that is that Sony is paying Microsoft all the good money to host and architect their services for them because they are so terrible at doing it themselves.
Microsoft isn’t struggling on any level, their vision is just entirely different.
Sony as per your example has a very narrow minded view and that’s going to bite at some point. The “runaway lead” isn’t as clear cut as it may seem when you look at the whole picture.
prod
Executive Member
This is a rather specific example to prove a point, but again, 2 out of the 3 console makers are doing well according to old school metrics. Zelda for instance sold 18mil copies since release, Switch is still very much on the best sold list even though it's like 7 years old. It's literally only MS not doing well according to these metrics. And subscription based services have been stuck in limbo while old style game sales are doing better than ever.
Didn't Phil Spencer himself say they are in 3rd place?...or was that just his puppy face in front of the regulators?
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
They definitely are third in place looking at the console space alone, no arguing there.
I’m just reminding everyone how these metrics work and how Starfield launching on day one for Game Pass will not be compared fairly to the market.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Nobody takes Nintendo seriously, not even Phil. That puppy dog face in court was just that. If you want a peek at Sony's future then look no further than Nintendo.
They'll sell their hardware in a niche market for people to play their exclusives on, and not much else. The main 3rd party publishers will be on Game Pass. EA Play is already included, and PS owners have to pay full price for those games.
Let's say Ubisoft is bought up next, apart from EA who does that leave still publishing on PS? Sega, Square Enix, Capcom, Konami, Namco and Take 2? Sounds fun, hope you enjoy Japanese 3rd party games. This is the real issue...
Barbarian Conan
Executive Member
Game streaming subscribers
Streaming offering a comparable experience to local hardware is still some time off.
As much as I am an MS fanboy, they are usually premature with their tech.
Sony and Nintendo take slower and more measured responses. By the time streaming is a viable option instead of local hardware (I guess at least 10 years away), Sony and Nintendo will be on the bandwagon and catch up quick. The game will still be the same - those with better content will win.