Rage over Xbox storage issue

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UnoPanelvan

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http://www.mydigitallife.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1039706&Itemid=73

Written by Ilva Pieterse
Thursday, 07 August 2008

Rage over Xbox storage issue


At the QuakeCon 2008 keynote last week in Dallas, John Carmack, game designer and co-founder of id software, shared information on their upcoming first person shooter titled Rage, says Tech Tree.


Carmack commented on a storage problem related to Microsoft`s Xbox 360 platform. He believes that compressing Rage textures such that the game data fits on to two Xbox 360 DVDs would result in loss of visual quality.


He added that including a third disc would shoot up the royalties that id would need to pay Microsoft.
Click to expand...


Now then we argued about the PS3 exclusive that would fill a full Blu Ray disk. Then all sorts of solutions was flung in Rage at me. :D Shame.


http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Carmacks_Rage_Over_Xbox_360_Storage/551-91755-585.html

On the other hand Sony's PS3 might get an upper hand with its Blu-ray drive. The game Rage will also be available on multiple DVDs and Blu-ray discs for the PC and Mac platforms.

Now all eyes are on Microsoft to how this problem would be addressed. Despite of the fact that compression technologies over optical media have taken us far, DVD media seems to have hit a wall.
Click to expand...

Now what was the clever ones telling me here on the forum. To clever it seems.

How many times were there arguments re the HD DVD v BluRay format and size of media. Now we see that there was some truth in the fears of those that were brutally kicked, smeared and named on this forum by those that know who they are.
 
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I'm afraid you've (once again) proved nothing.

Carmack merely stated that MS's royalties per disc make it slightly more pricey to expand the game to a third disc, however it is still completely viable (i.e. not an issue for the user) for the game to be spread across 3 or more discs.

He is also talking hypothetically about the final size of the game and with the intention, i'm sure, of making these comments public in order to get MS to drop the price per disc.

This is Carmack we're talking about...he lives for graphical fidelity. The game textures will not be compressed in any version of the game whether id ends up covering the costs or MS cuts them some slack.

Nice try Uno.
 
They will have to compress it for x360 as they don't want to move beyond using 2 disks, cause of cost thing. Guess MS might just cut them some slack, as you said, since they won't want the game to look that bit less better on 360 than PS3 just cause of the discs.

UnoPanelvan, ignore the fan boys dude. Any of the people that sais they are happy with sitting with 10 discs rather than 1 blu-ray sais that cause they prolly don't own a PS3 and don't have a choise than to be happy with what they got.

Ugh,, and before anyone starts. No, I'm no PS3 or Sony fanboy, the PS3 is the first console I ever owned.. except if you count the 8bit NES I had ages aggo. I want to get an x360, but only for some exclusives like Fable2 and also after I'm sure that HDD bay can be modded to take a bigger drive. I chose PS3 cause at the time I bought there where more exclusives to PS3 that I personally wanted to play than what the x360 was getting.

Back to the point, ya know.. Rage, Crisis, those kinda games are PC games (well, good gaming rigs) .. Consoles are too limited to show those games at their full potential. Limited memory, slow loading from disc (at least now you can install to HDD on 360 too), last last gen gfx hardware. But heck.. you can't beat console gaming :) Knowing the game will work when you insert it. Games tuned for playing with gamepad while you lay on couch.
 
The only point I agree on is that M$ will need to decrease their royalties per disc to ensure lossless visuals.

Oh and can I use some red in my posts? I'm pretty sure this kind of thing can cause epileptic fits. :rolleyes:
 
oh sure , the ps3's blu ray is so great that half the games i've played on ps3 need to store gigs of **** on the HDD for some reason.
 
Xyber said:
UnoPanelvan, ignore the fan boys dude. Any of the people that sais they are happy with sitting with 10 discs rather than 1 blu-ray sais that cause they prolly don't own a PS3 and don't have a choise than to be happy with what they got.
Click to expand...
Exaggeration will get you nowhere.

Any idea why Carmack specified 3 discs? Because 3 x 8.5gigs = 25.5 gigs = 1x(single layered) Blu-ray game disc. In other words the game will be a maximum of 3 discs for the 360.

If memory serves, no PS3 game has been able to fill a BD disc without extra padding, save for MGS4 which might be on a BD DL disc (as a result of the amount of FMV used and not the amount/quality of textures ingame)
 
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bboy said:
oh sure , the ps3's blu ray is so great that half the games i've played on ps3 need to store gigs of **** on the HDD for some reason.
Click to expand...

Roflmao

Afaik, thats because of the Bluray's awesome drive read speed? :rolleyes:
 
therefore the 360's disk drive is better.
imagine the scenario

I have 40 games on 360, quite a few of them span multi disks.
I wish to play game X, i slip it in, play for a while, swap the disk continue.
Then decide on game Y, slip it in a play for a while, and again for game Z, game A, game B etc etc etc.

Slip it in, maybe have to swap disc while playing but anyway.


So now i decide to Jam on my PS3, i slip my newly purchased game in and it wants to do one of those stupid installs, 1 hour later i decied to slip another disk in, hold the phone ps3 wants to do another install on the HDD, but its out of space( 40 game installs) cause every other effing ps3 game wants to do the HDD install, so now instead of just swapping a disk, i have to decided to delete contect, but now when i want to play the game who's content i have delete, oh ****, now i have to delete the content of another game, which funnily enough turns out be a lot more effort than just swapping a disk.



Anyway, I can the real scenario with a xbox 360 game, buy 3 disk game.
Day 1, play disk 1
Day 2 play disk 1
Day 3 insert disc 2 and play
Day 4 play straight from disc 2 (ie boot and play, no disc 1 needed to start)
Day 5 play disc 2
Day 6 getting really far in the game now, insert disc 3 and play t
Day 7 start up console lauch game off disc 3 and play to finish.

Ahh. 7 days of gaming and 2 "disc swaps" oh the pain.
 
Iwojima said:
I'm afraid you've (once again) proved nothing.

Carmack merely stated that MS's royalties per disc make it slightly more pricey to expand the game to a third disc, however it is still completely viable (i.e. not an issue for the user) for the game to be spread across 3 or more discs.

He is also talking hypothetically about the final size of the game and with the intention, i'm sure, of making these comments public in order to get MS to drop the price per disc.

This is Carmack we're talking about...he lives for graphical fidelity. The game textures will not be compressed in any version of the game whether id ends up covering the costs or MS cuts them some slack.

Nice try Uno.
Click to expand...

Are you crazy? Try What? Proof of What. READ MY LIPS. The "X" box have a problem it is sub standard re DVD storage than compared to the PS3 and it cannot be solved unless the "X" box add a huge amount of dvd's or solve it by adding BluRAy to the "X"box at a huge cost or the consumers can buy a PS3 to do a better job. No limitations at all. There is future games coming that will require many disks and the "X"Box for now shamelessly is not up to it, now they cry about royalties. The starage capacity is the problem on the "X"Box not the fact that the PS3 has a major advantage. :p :p :p Shame.

BTW is so damn funny that when the same graphical fidelity was raised with the PS3 exclusive that fills a complete BluRAy disk+ the same many Kideos here shouted that it is bloatware, and unnecessary and .... and blah, blah, blah. So typical that some guys change their views to suit like a chameleon on a smarties box.
 
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Iwojima said:
Exaggeration will get you nowhere.

Any idea why Carmack specified 3 discs? Because 3 x 8.5gigs = 25.5 gigs = 1x(single layered) Blu-ray game disc. In other words the game will be a maximum of 3 discs for the 360.

If memory serves, no PS3 game has been able to fill a BD disc without extra padding, save for MGS4 which might be on a BD DL disc (as a result of the amount of FMV used and not the amount/quality of textures ingame)
Click to expand...

BluRay can handle 50Gig bro.
 
bboy said:
oh sure , the ps3's blu ray is so great that half the games i've played on ps3 need to store gigs of **** on the HDD for some reason.
Click to expand...

It common knowledge that any PC and latest consoles use either large memory banks or HDD to have better read speed for game playability than any DVD player can offer. Tsk :p

So what is the issue?
 
bboy said:
therefore the 360's disk drive is better.
imagine the scenario

I have 40 games on 360, quite a few of them span multi disks.
I wish to play game X, i slip it in, play for a while, swap the disk continue.
Then decide on game Y, slip it in a play for a while, and again for game Z, game A, game B etc etc etc.

Slip it in, maybe have to swap disc while playing but anyway.


So now i decide to Jam on my PS3, i slip my newly purchased game in and it wants to do one of those stupid installs, 1 hour later i decied to slip another disk in, hold the phone ps3 wants to do another install on the HDD, but its out of space( 40 game installs) cause every other effing ps3 game wants to do the HDD install, so now instead of just swapping a disk, i have to decided to delete contect, but now when i want to play the game who's content i have delete, oh ****, now i have to delete the content of another game, which funnily enough turns out be a lot more effort than just swapping a disk.



Anyway, I can the real scenario with a xbox 360 game, buy 3 disk game.
Day 1, play disk 1
Day 2 play disk 1
Day 3 insert disc 2 and play
Day 4 play straight from disc 2 (ie boot and play, no disc 1 needed to start)
Day 5 play disc 2
Day 6 getting really far in the game now, insert disc 3 and play t
Day 7 start up console lauch game off disc 3 and play to finish.

Ahh. 7 days of gaming and 2 "disc swaps" oh the pain.
Click to expand...

What a <"""""""> argument! Looks like all the fanbois can do is babble about nonsense.
BTW why would it be such an issue if there will be 80 and 160 gig HDD versions for PS3 in future, so far the 40 did fine.
 
Mephisto_Helix said:
that your new tagline? .... suits you down to the bone ;)
Click to expand...

:) Nothing to add? Suits you down to the other bones tho, ;) :D

PS I love these fanbois tho, gives me lots of fun and enjoyment. Especially with the "X"box where all the FAnbois always have to be on the defense. I will hate M$ for it.
 
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UnoPanelvan said:
It common knowledge that any PC and latest consoles use either large memory banks or HDD to have better read speed for game playability than any DVD player can offer. Tsk :p

So what is the issue?
Click to expand...


Wrong, how many xbox games need to access their content off the disk?
 
UnoPanelvan said:
What a <"""""""> argument! Looks like all the fanbois can do is babble about nonsense.
BTW why would it be such an issue if there will be 80 and 160 gig HDD versions for PS3 in future, so far the 40 did fine.
Click to expand...

So now I must go upgrade my ps3 all the time?

Its a schlep, and the install time pisses me off even more!
 
bboy said:
Wrong, how many xbox games need to access their content off the disk?
Click to expand...

I do not know and do not care. Why do you have a HDD in the Xbox at all? This discussion is about the DVD storage capacity the developers are complaining about not about the HDD in anyway.
 
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