Raikkonen is no better than Massa

[Gunther]

The reason why Räikkönen wins is because Ferrari favour him. If you look back you will find that Massa trashes Räikkönen in qualifying almost every single time. Räikkönen then beats Massa in the race because he has more fuel (one lap usually). Do you actually think that Massa chooses to carry less fuel than Räikkönen in qualifying? He is perfectly capable of beating Räikkönen carrying more fuel in qualifying. So why does that not happen?

As for Massa's so-called mistakes. Räikkönen drove off the track twice in Australia. Like a rookie. Did anyone notice him going off at turn three in practice by putting a wheel on the grass under breaking? He did the same thing in the race, at the same corner. In the time of both these two at Ferrari, I'm sure Räikkönen made just as many mistakes as Massa, if not more! Why does it seem like everyone misses that fact? Nobody said anything about his mistakes in Australia.

But anyway.. Today Massa will trash Räikkönen in Turkey.

 

[CaTcH21]

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=109640

 

[Pitbull]

The fuel issue is not because of they farouring one more than the other.

It's a race tactic, also it makes sure they do their pit stops 1 - 3 laps appart.
The Fuel also helps with the qualifying. The less fuel you run the better the time. Remember with the new rules they are not allowed to refuel agter qualifying.

If they favour Kimmi, which I doubt, but if they do it would be more in relation to lap times and getting one or the other to slow traffic down in set locations. This is however very hard to do as they are ussualy grouped together. Also you might see the Pit stop times being little different

But fuel and tires have nothing to do with it

 

[Gunther]

I understand all that. But I still say that by giving Räikkönen an extra lap of fuel they are favouring him. There is no way in hell that he can beat Massa if it was the other way around. Massa would still qualify in front of him (carrying an extra lap) and then they would never swop position in the race.

 

[Pitbull]

I understand all that. But I still say that by giving Räikkönen an extra lap of fuel they are favouring him. There is no way in hell that he can beat Massa if it was the other way around. Massa would still qualify in front of him (carrying an extra lap) and then they would never swop position in the race.

I don't know how much fuel they need to carry for every lap.

But Remember they pit the same amount of times, Now in qualifying the extra fuel might give him a slower lap time of lets say .5 of a second. It doesn't sound like alot. How ever when they do pit, .5 of a second is nothing. One wrong move on the pit and that little .5 second goes out the window.

Look at the pit stop times. If there is any favouritism going on, I would say Massa's pit stop would atleast be a second if not more than Kimmi's

That makes a huge difference in the end.

 

[[OUPA]MrNutz]

The reason why Räikkönen wins is because Ferrari favour him. If you look back you will find that Massa trashes Räikkönen in qualifying almost every single time.

if my statistics prof would grade you - he would give you ZERO

as per wikipedia.

07:

kimi poles: 3
kimi fastest lap:6
race winner: 6

massa poles: 6
massa fastest lap:6
race winner: 3


08 sofar:

kimi poles: 1
kimi fastest lap:1
race winner: 2

massa poles: 2
massa fastest lap:0
race winner: 1

thus "almost every single time" = not the truth..fastest laps speaks for itself.

 

[Gunther]

Look at the pit stop times. If there is any favouritism going on, I would say Massa's pit stop would atleast be a second if not more than Kimmi's

1. Massa pits first. He is then in traffic on his out lap and he loses time because of a full tank of fuel and cold tires.

2. Räikkönen pits on the next lap. He leapfrogs Massa because Massa lost time on his out lap while Räikkönen could go flat out on his in lap.

I suppose this is not full on favouritism, but Räikkönen definitely gets the advantage.

 

[Pitbull]

1. Massa pits first. He is then in traffic on his out lap and he loses time because of a full tank of fuel and cold tires.

2. Räikkönen pits on the next lap. He leapfrogs Massa because Massa lost time on his out lap while Räikkönen could go flat out on his in lap.

I suppose this is not full on favouritism, but Räikkönen definitely gets the advantage.

I have to agree on what you said above. The traffic thing is unpredictable though. Thus meaning it can't be used for advantage to one driver. Also if there is a Safety car out, that would make what you said above null and void.

It might be a small part of the bigger picture though. So I could agree with the above to some extend

 

[Gunther]

I have to agree on what you said above. The traffic thing is unpredictable though. Thus meaning it can't be used for advantage to one driver. Also if there is a Safety car out, that would make what you said above null and void.

It might be a small part of the bigger picture though. So I could agree with the above to some extend

Yes. But remember that a safety car is very rare. The driver with the extra lap is usually the one with the advantage. And face it, Massa is faster than Räikkönen in qualifying. If he were to get that extra lap he would be virtually unbeatable. So either Massa is stupid and he intentially carries less fuel every time (which I doubt), or Ferrari is giving Räikkönen that extra lap because they want him to have the advantage.

 

[Ou grote]

Don't the driver's get any say as to how there cars must be set up?

 

[Pitbull]

Yes. But remember that a safety car is very rare. The driver with the extra lap is usually the one with the advantage. And face it, Massa is faster than Räikkönen in qualifying. If he were to get that extra lap he would be virtually unbeatable. So either Massa is stupid and he intentially carries less fuel every time (which I doubt), or Ferrari is giving Räikkönen that extra lap because they want him to have the advantage.

The reason I'm saying it's very unpredictable.

No one knows whos cars have what fuel level. Meaning Masa might be the first Ferrari to pit, doesn't mean he's the first car to pit

Thus, traffic could be infavour of Massa depending on the amount of Fuel he has vs the other drivers. Or He could be at a disadvantage. But then again the same goes for Kimmi.

That's the reason I'm saying Fuel and tires has nothing to do with it, it's purely strategy.

 

[Gunther]

It's very rare for the leader of a race to come out in first place (or second behind his teammate) at the first pitstop. And even if that does happen, then time is still lost because of cold tires and a heavy car.

Räikkönen + 1 lap extra fuel = big advantage over Massa.

 

[Ou grote]

It's very rare for the leader of a race to come out in first place (or second behind his teammate) at the first pitstop. And even if that does happen, then time is still lost because of cold tires and a heavy car.

Räikkönen + 1 lap extra fuel = big advantage over Massa.

Now that Shumi has retired...

 

[Gunther]

I'm resting my case now. Massa is very unpopular whilst Räikkönen seems to be the favourite. My leaving point is this:

If Massa receives an extra lap of fuel at every race (like Räikkönen gets at 80% of the races), then there is no way Räikkönen will beat him this year to the title.

Oh before I forget. Am I the only one who gets very annoyed at Sasha Martinengo (Of Supersport and Absolute F1)? Every time a Ferrari driver does something right then Sasha thinks it Räikkönen. But when a Ferrari driver does something wrong then he thinks it's Massa. I nearly pulled my hair out yesterday because the guy kept saying it was Räikkönen who got held up behind Alonso on his fast lap, but actually it was Massa behind Alonso on his out lap. The names were right on the screen! And how could he miss the yellow helmet???

 

[Pitbull]

I'm resting my case now. Massa is very unpopular whilst Räikkönen seems to be the favourite. My leaving point is this:

If Massa receives an extra lap of fuel at every race (like Räikkönen gets at 80% of the races), then there is no way Räikkönen will beat him this year to the title.

Oh before I forget. Am I the only one who gets very annoyed at Sasha Martinengo (Of Supersport and Absolute F1)? Every time a Ferrari driver does something right then Sasha thinks it Räikkönen. But when a Ferrari driver does something wrong then he thinks it's Massa. I nearly pulled my hair out yesterday because the guy kept saying it was Räikkönen who got held up behind Alonso on his fast lap, but actually it was Massa behind Alonso on his out lap. The names were right on the screen! And how could he miss the yellow helmet???

True.

The thing is I'm a Kimmi fan and not a Ferrari fan But yes, Ferrari does have some tricky tactics when it comes to racing, Look at the Rubbens/Schumi incedent. This is the reason I do also believe there might be something, I however doubt it's the fuel.

Then again, Kimmi was a runner up in the Driver championship while driving for Mclaren. Thus Kimmi in my eyes is a better driver than Massa. But that is just my 2c

 

[Gunther]

Lets agree to disagree then. I believe there is no one who can match Massa over a single lap. In race trim Massa and Räikkönen are equal, in my opinion.

 

[Gunther]

 

[ID10T]

Gunter, are you sure that Massa is equal to Raikonen, cos' yeah, Massa and Raikonen make the same amount of mistakes, but Raikonen does so much more to make up for those mistakes... I believe that Kimi could whip Massa's ass twice over with one hand in his pocket in a single lap.

 

[ID10T]

Don't the driver's get any say as to how there cars must be set up?

Yeah, as far as i know, the driver says that he wants to race in a certain way... then they check with the team managers, and a final decision is made...

Also, i listened to the commentators, and on a few occasion did they say that Kimi prefers to have more fuel in his car and does things the long way... And same goes for the time he was at Mclaren, he always drove with more fuel, by preference.

 

[Gunther]

Gunter, are you sure that Massa is equal to Raikonen, cos' yeah, Massa and Raikonen make the same amount of mistakes, but Raikonen does so much more to make up for those mistakes... I believe that Kimi could whip Massa's ass twice over with one hand in his pocket in a single lap.

Well then isn't it ironic how Kimi got trashed by Massa today?