Random body searches

I have been in a similar situation before except I questioned why the officer wanted to search myself and my vehicle to which I was told that they have a daily quota to fill. He didn't take too kindly to me stating that they can't simply search whomever they feel like searching, there has to at least be a justifiable reason. I had nothing to hide other than my CRKT M14-16SF which he never found anyway.
 
Only at a K78 roadblock may an officer search you and your car without a warrant. Also, should a police officer request to perform a body search during a K78 roadblock, it is illegal for an officer of the opposite sex to search you.
 
They can probably claim it's midnight and you're around a watering hole. The claim will be it is not uncommon to find drugs on people who are out and about near drinking spots.
 
Neuk_ said:
I have been in a similar situation before except I questioned why the officer wanted to search myself and my vehicle to which I was told that they have a daily quota to fill. He didn't take too kindly to me stating that they can't simply search whomever they feel like searching, there has to at least be a justifiable reason. I had nothing to hide other than my CRKT M14-16SF which he never found anyway.
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Why not just say "knife"?
 
They may search you only if they have a valid belief that you may have been involved in the commission of a crime and that a warrant would hypothetically be issued by a magistrate under the circumstances. Note they only need grounds for the belief that you may have been involved in a crime and not actual evidence. So it's probably enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Chances are somebody complained about a drug dealer in the area or something.
 
UrBaN963 said:
So I went out last night.

At about midnight we arrived to Stones to play some foosball and have a drink.

As I got out my car a police bakkie was passing through the parking area and stopped and greeted us. He then proceeded to body search me, going through all pockets, my wallet etc.

He then requested access to my car so he could search it too, looking for drugs or firearms.

I was sober and have nothing to hide so it wasn’t an issue for me, I just let him do his thing to get it over with.

However, it did get me thinking. I have no idea what South African law states as regards random body and vehicle searches.

I can’t think of a “probably cause” scenario here that would make him a) feel like he needed to search me or b) give legal grounds to do so.

Is this legal?
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I am a former policeman myself from way way back, so I went onto Google to see what it says about random searches without a warrant, and I see the law hasn't changed since:

Any member of the South African Police Service may, without a warrant, search any vehicle at such a roadblock. ... It is also important to note that a search and seizure by a police official must be reasonable and justifiable in terms of the Constitution.

So it seems they are within your rights to do random searches without warrants as long as the search and seizure should it take place, is conducted according to the SA constitution. What it comes down to is that a cop can have a suspicion that something might be wrong and act upon it and/or he can just randomly search you on a hunch but it has to occur in a civil manner within the framework of the law, and you have to adhere to such actions. If u do however feel that he acted unlawfully u can always challenge it later, but preferably don't resist the cops from doing what they feel they have to do. Be smart. This is applicable to a roadblock or any random place/vicinity. With respects to the wallet, or any other property being searched, you have to be present at all times in order to ensure that no irregularities are taking place, e.g property going missing during police searches, etc. :)
 
garp said:
They may search you only if they have a valid belief that you may have been involved in the commission of a crime and that a warrant would hypothetically be issued by a magistrate under the circumstances. Note they only need grounds for the belief that you may have been involved in a crime and not actual evidence. So it's probably enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Chances are somebody complained about a drug dealer in the area or something.
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Not true my man, coming from an ex cop myself. Here's what the current law states:

Any member of the South African Police Service may, without a warrant, search any vehicle at such a roadblock. ... It is also important to note that a search and seizure by a police official must be reasonable and justifiable in terms of the Constitution.

This is applicable to any area, not a specific road block only. When police do random blitzes and searches in public (even your car) they don't need a warrant. A warrant is only applicable where your house or business are to be searched by SAPS.
 
garp said:
They may search you only if they have a valid belief that you may have been involved in the commission of a crime and that a warrant would hypothetically be issued by a magistrate under the circumstances. Note they only need grounds for the belief that you may have been involved in a crime and not actual evidence. So it's probably enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Chances are somebody complained about a drug dealer in the area or something.
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Right on my man, a belief based on a sudden suspicion or hunch is enough for the police to act. Were you a cop too?
 
Thor said:
Define "suspicion"
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Suspicion is a broad term my man, which gives the police broad powers. Hence why they are way within their legal rights to search you at heart and randomly based on a suspicion or belief of suspicious activity or a basic random public search of your person or your vehicle. Only when searching your house, or business is a warrant required.
 
Thor said:
The law says:


  • If the officer requests to search the car, he/she must provide you with a copy of an official warrant stating the reason for the search. **
** Should an officer have reasonable grounds to perform a search without a warrant, and he/she must prove this in the court of law at a later stage, he/she may perform a search.



So OP I would take them to court.
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My man, seriously. How will the police find a warrant at 12h00 at night when they see something suspicious, r u crazy lolol???? The law allows them to act upon a suspicion and a believe/hunch. The only time they need a warrant is when your private home or private business is to be searched. Every search that occurs in the open public in not warranted by a warrant.
 
This does not sound legit.
And if you try to resist and mention your rights, you get in more trouble.
All you need is a frustrated cop on that day and you could end up spending the night in jail for resisting.
D@mned if you do and d@mned if you don't.
 
They MUST prove it in court as per the law. So yes they can search, but you can take them to court afterwards.

Jomi101 said:
Suspicion is a broad term my man, which gives the police broad powers. Hence why they are way within their legal rights to search you at heart and randomly based on a suspicion or belief of suspicious activity or a basic random public search of your person or your vehicle. Only when searching your house, or business is a warrant required.
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Jomi101 said:
My man, seriously. How will the police find a warrant at 12h00 at night when they see something suspicious, r u crazy lolol???? The law allows them to act upon a suspicion and a believe/hunch. The only time they need a warrant is when your private home or private business is to be searched. Every search that occurs in the open public in not warranted by a warrant.
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Thor said:
They MUST prove it in court as per the law. So yes they can search, but you can take them to court afterwards.
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Yes, but you're going to have a tough time proving that they didn't have a valid belief that you may have been involved in a crime since it is so subjective. In this case, they could just argue that they saw a known drug dealer operating in the area just before you, and reasonably suspected that late at night you might be buying.

The degree to which you can get outraged about it depends very much on the circumstances. Late night on the street in a night club area - yeah, I can see the rationale. Sitting in my front garden minding my own business with my family in broad daylight on Saturday morning - yeah, they'd better have a warrant.

Notwithstanding, I've seen stats that the SAPS pays out hundreds of millions in settlements for "false arrest" every year, but do you really want to spend the rest of the night in prison and then also go through a legal process to sue them when you could just co-operate as OP did, with no negative consequence other than slight inconvenience?
 
UrBaN963 said:
Just chatted to a friend of mine. She also got searched at the same place by presumably the same cops last night. They went through her handbag which is apparently only allowed by female cops? Not sure on that but seems a little weird.
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Is she hot? COP was probably hoping to find something so he could get her number ;-)
 
Thor said:
They MUST prove it in court as per the law. So yes they can search, but you can take them to court afterwards.
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You can take them to court, but you will undoubtedly not succeed. In fact the prosecutor won't even put a case like this on the court role. The police has the right according to the law and constitution to search you at random at any inclination of an suspicion of any kind in a public area. The only time they require a search warrant, is when your private home or private business is to be searched.

Any member of the South African Police Service may, without a warrant, search any vehicle at such a roadblock. ... It is also important to note that a search and seizure by a police official must be reasonable and justifiable in terms of the Constitution.
 
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