Received notice for summons

I think in a way it is good. The public must have the impression that breaking traffic rules, in this case, will more than likely result in problems, rather annoying problems too.

At the moment it's the wild west, everybody drives around while wasted, because the police probably won't catch you anyway. Nobody takes the SA police force seriously. Incompetent, underpaid, understaffed.

Traffic cops have quotas to fill for traffic tickets, so it's not about trying to improve road safety, it's about writing the maximum number of fines per day/week. Terrible.
 
abandonallhope said:
I think in a way it is good. The public must have the impression that breaking traffic rules, in this case, will more than likely result in problems, rather annoying problems too.

At the moment it's the wild west, everybody drives around while wasted, because the police probably won't catch you anyway. Nobody takes the SA police force seriously. Incompetent, underpaid, understaffed.

Traffic cops have quotas to fill for traffic tickets, so it's not about trying to improve road safety, it's about writing the maximum number of fines per day/week. Terrible.
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Annoying problems are fines and such..

Life changing problems are things like a Criminal Record.
 
Arthur said:
If you are summonsed to appear in court you absolutely must appear, or face an additional criminal charges of contempt of court.

If I were you I'd immediately make a personal visit to the Public Prosecutor at the court to which you have been summonsed, and negotiate a withdrawal of the summons and payment of an admission of guilt fine.

Failure to appear will most certainly give you a criminal record which includes contempt of court, a serious offence.
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You're not wrong but it's really not as big as a deal as you make it sound. You can even "negotiate" the fine down simply by finding whatever poor sap whose job it is to sit at a desk and squash the summons or contempt charges.
 
abandonallhope said:
You know what I mean.
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Well not really...

A fine etc is an annoyance, and if implemented correctly its very effective... currently its a revenue generating tool, and its very clear that it is such.

A criminal record on the other hand is not an effective tool to enforce the traffic laws... its just a big stick that the population will start ignoring.
 
thebarret said:
Paying an admission of guilt will give you a criminal record. If you say, want to travel overseas they will pick up this record and will most likely refuse you entry into the country or if you apply for a job and they do a backround check they will pick it up. So by all means possible try not to pay that admission of guilt.

Get a lawyer!
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This is effectively the same thing as a misdemeanor in the states. Minor offenses are often overlooked for employment and travel. The key is not to lie about it - when they ask if you have a criminal record, admit it and provide the details. If you lie and they discover that you do have one, that really will count against you...
 
abandonallhope said:
I think in a way it is good. The public must have the impression that breaking traffic rules, in this case, will more than likely result in problems, rather annoying problems too.

At the moment it's the wild west, everybody drives around while wasted, because the police probably won't catch you anyway. Nobody takes the SA police force seriously. Incompetent, underpaid, understaffed.

Traffic cops have quotas to fill for traffic tickets, so it's not about trying to improve road safety, it's about writing the maximum number of fines per day/week. Terrible.
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Better law enforcement is good, but only if applied sensibly where the road conditions dictate.

Getting a criminal record because you didn't quite slow down fast enough in the long dual carriageway at the end of a 120km/h highway (which is where they love to put the traps in Cape Town) seems a tad unfair, however. Especially when you then get to watch taxis screaming down residential roads past schools all day with no consequence at all.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Annoying problems are fines and such..

Life changing problems are things like a Criminal Record.
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Just as life changing are people who die because of other people who dont comply with traffic regulations.

Here in East London we have almost no regulation and it has become the wild west out there. More and more dangerous to drive as more and more people think they can get away with breaking the law. We urgently need change.

A friend of mine was in Germany and driving with a german family friend. He got to a zebra crossing and slowed down but did not stop (as it was the middle of the night). The german woman got very cross with him because of the bad example he was setting for the children in the car. We are light years from that still :/
 
ghoti said:
Just as life changing are people who die because of other people who dont comply with traffic regulations.

Here in East London we have almost no regulation and it has become the wild west out there. More and more dangerous to drive as more and more people think they can get away with breaking the law. We urgently need change.

A friend of mine was in Germany and driving with a german family friend. He got to a zebra crossing and slowed down but did not stop (as it was the middle of the night). The german woman got very cross with him because of the bad example he was setting for the children in the car. We are light years from that still :/
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I agree with you completely..

But the way to solve this problem is not by giving everyone a criminal record, but by actually enforcing the rules in a uniform fashion and not just using certain rules as a revenue generation tool.

If the traffic police started stopping people for skipping traffic lights, not stopping at stop signs, jaywalking etc etc etc and then fining them.... it might start filtering out that people need to drive properly. The biggest problem with this is that they need to hit the taxi's and hit them hard as they are the biggest root cause of the bad behaviour on our roads.
 
ToxicBunny said:
I agree with you completely..

But the way to solve this problem is not by giving everyone a criminal record, but by actually enforcing the rules in a uniform fashion and not just using certain rules as a revenue generation tool.

If the traffic police started stopping people for skipping traffic lights, not stopping at stop signs, jaywalking etc etc etc and then fining them.... it might start filtering out that people need to drive properly. The biggest problem with this is that they need to hit the taxi's and hit them hard as they are the biggest root cause of the bad behaviour on our roads.
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If everyone thinks they know best when to apply the rules when they think its safe, then you get the Eastern Cape situation. As they say, if you are going to play the game you must know the rules. We all have had eye tests done, we all know how to read signs. If you are breaking the speed limit so significantly that you dont get a fine, well then you are responsible for what happens to you.

I also dont buy the whole, "but the taxis get away with it so I am going to try". I dont think its good to emulate that taxi drivers way of doing stuff, I think its better to set the example for the taxi drivers to fit into.
 
garp said:
Better law enforcement is good, but only if applied sensibly where the road conditions dictate.

Getting a criminal record because you didn't quite slow down fast enough in the long dual carriageway at the end of a 120km/h highway (which is where they love to put the traps in Cape Town) seems a tad unfair, however. Especially when you then get to watch taxis screaming down residential roads past schools all day with no consequence at all.
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Taxi drivers are regularly doing many dangerous things. Speeding may be the least of their offences.
 
ghoti said:
If everyone thinks they know best when to apply the rules when they think its safe, then you get the Eastern Cape situation.
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So it's better that the traffic police's version of "knowing best when to apply the rules" is only in spots where they know they can maximise their revenue, typically where the speed limit is much lower than road conditions allow for? How is that any better? It leads to just as much lawlessness because when you apply the law like that people will not respect it as they see the primary motive for the rules as being for cash generation not road safety.
 
ghoti said:
If everyone thinks they know best when to apply the rules when they think its safe, then you get the Eastern Cape situation. As they say, if you are going to play the game you must know the rules. We all have had eye tests done, we all know how to read signs. If you are breaking the speed limit so significantly that you dont get a fine, well then you are responsible for what happens to you.

I also dont buy the whole, "but the taxis get away with it so I am going to try". I dont think its good to emulate that taxi drivers way of doing stuff, I think its better to set the example for the taxi drivers to fit into.
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Yeah ok, unfortunately the Taxi drivers don't care about anyone elses example. Im also not saying we should apply the rules when we think they're safe. I'm saying our Traffic police need to enforce the rules uniformly, such as when a Metro police officer is travelling in their vehicle and sees someone jumping a red light or skipping a stop street, the sirens should go on and chase the person down and give them a fine. Do that as well as enforcing the rules for the taxi's and I am pretty sure you would see the behaviour on our roads changing relatively quickly.
 
ghoti said:
If everyone thinks they know best when to apply the rules when they think its safe, then you get the Eastern Cape situation. As they say, if you are going to play the game you must know the rules. We all have had eye tests done, we all know how to read signs. If you are breaking the speed limit so significantly that you dont get a fine, well then you are responsible for what happens to you.

I also dont buy the whole, "but the taxis get away with it so I am going to try". I dont think its good to emulate that taxi drivers way of doing stuff, I think its better to set the example for the taxi drivers to fit into.
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I think the focus should be on reckless driving, with speeding receiving attention once that is resolved. Taxi drivers will not follow anyone's example but their own, we both know that. They often hoot at you for not driving recklessly because it holds them up. There is noticeably more police presence behind speed camera, than there is enforcing other rules of the road. This is what people have an issue with...
 
ToxicBunny said:
Yeah ok, unfortunately the Taxi drivers don't care about anyone elses example. Im also not saying we should apply the rules when we think they're safe. I'm saying our Traffic police need to enforce the rules uniformly, such as when a Metro police officer is travelling in their vehicle and sees someone jumping a red light or skipping a stop street, the sirens should go on and chase the person down and give them a fine. Do that as well as enforcing the rules for the taxi's and I am pretty sure you would see the behaviour on our roads changing relatively quickly.
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Dream on. Metro cops skip lights at their leisure anyway. See it all the time in the cbd. Those metro cop taxi things, they couldnt care less about rules of the road because they think they are above it.
 
rakabos3 said:
Dream on. Metro cops skip lights at their leisure anyway. See it all the time in the cbd. Those metro cop taxi things, they couldnt care less about rules of the road because they think they are above it.
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And there we go.. that is a problem and it needs to be rectified.

I have had dealings with the SAPS in my area recently, and by and large they are monumentally frustrated at everything. The volume of crime (at all levels) is beyond their ability to control anymore, and its not helped by the people "in charge" doing as they see fit anyway.. We need a leadership at all levels to start abiding by the law, and it will flow down from there.
 
The Germans are hardly a good example. They're known for following rules to point of stupidity. It's hilarious watching them all standing at the side of a completely empty road waiting to be told they can cross. Even funnier is watching them flip out when a foreigner just crosses the road because it is clearly safe to do so.

Those who say we should follow all rules blindly must think all rules are good and sensible rules.

I don't see anyone saying everyone should behave like South African taxis, but instead that enforcement does not focus on these repeat offenders. There's also no interest in improving driver training or getting old, dangerous cars off the road. They don't because it is easier, and more profitable, to target middle-class motorists in areas where few accidents happen.

ghoti said:
The german woman got very cross with him because of the bad example he was setting for the children in the car.
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I'd be cross with her for the bad example she is setting. Blindly following authority. Whatever next.
 
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