Recommend a (smart?) Solar Geyser

[InTheCube]

So I'm in the market for a solar geyser. I don't know too much, just doing the initial research / legwork before I start getting quotations. Any and all advice will be appreciated. I'm in JHB, and I think I need about 300 litres. This is for a household of 5.

A few questions I have:

- ls there such a thing as a Smart Solar Geyser? Something with maybe a network port or built in WiFi to monitor the geyser, or configure settings (if any?). Don't want to buy a dumb solar geyser if there are smart ones available, if the additional cost is reasonable and the extra functionality useful.

- What happens to the solar geyser if I am away for say 1-2 weeks or more? Can it be switched off? I've heard some people mention that you need to cover it with a blanket otherwise you can run into issues, but this has its own issues if there are strong winds. Are there no solar geysers that handle this automatically, or can be switched off, or have a motorised cover to block out the sun? Or have I been listening to nonsense?

- What happens if you have a week of bad weather with no/little sun? Can these geysers switch to mains supply in order to heat the water? Can this be disabled altogether? Or enabled/disabled remotely via an app / smart functionality? If I plan to eventually go offgrid, can the solar geyser tap off battery storage for bad weather days? Can some sort of limit be set for this so as not to deplete my batteries on water heating?

- What is the general rule about payback period on a solar geyser? Can I recover my investment in say 5 years just from the savings on electricity charges?

- Are there any insurance approved geysers that someone can recommend? I know Standard Bank Insurance will only cover a solar geyser if the installer/supplier gives you a 10 year warranty on the geyser (so what is the point of insurance on the geyser then?) and produces a COC.

- Can someone recommend some brands and/or installers in the JHB area?

- What ballpark figure should I be looking at for a complete solution with installation?

 

[spiff]

So I'm in the market for a solar geyser. I don't know too much, just doing the initial research / legwork before I start getting quotations. Any and all advice will be appreciated. I'm in JHB, and I think I need about 300 litres. This is for a household of 5.

A few questions I have:

- What happens to the solar geyser if I am away for say 1-2 weeks or more? Can it be switched off? I've heard some people mention that you need to cover it with a blanket otherwise you can run into issues, but this has its own issues if there are strong winds. Are there no solar geysers that handle this automatically, or can be switched off, or have a motorised cover to block out the sun? Or have I been listening to nonsense?

what issues?
No need to switch off. geyser has safety valves in case it exceeds pressure limits. (checked regularly)
mine is on top of house roof - never had issues with wind or rain.

- What happens if you have a week of bad weather with no/little sun? Can these geysers switch to mains supply in order to heat the water? Can this be disabled altogether? Or enabled/disabled remotely via an app / smart functionality? If I plan to eventually go offgrid, can the solar geyser tap off battery storage for bad weather days? Can some sort of limit be set for this so as not to deplete my batteries on water heating?

some have eskom backup power via a geserwise unit- I hate eskom - so I have gas backup (2018) - never run out of hot water. fark eskom!!
use a sonoff wifi switch from your phone if you want to make it "smart".
get gas for back up / cooking & heating

- What is the general rule about payback period on a solar geyser? Can I recover my investment in say 5 years just from the savings on electricity charges?

pay cash if possible - ever increasing eskom costs means you will pay back quicker than you think

- What ballpark figure should I be looking at for a complete solution with installation?

I paid R16k cash fully installed, including eskom rebate - back in 2010

my solar geyser still working perfectly - never had any issues with it.

 

[isie]

So I'm in the market for a solar geyser. I don't know too much, just doing the initial research / legwork before I start getting quotations. Any and all advice will be appreciated. I'm in JHB, and I think I need about 300 litres. This is for a household of 5.

A few questions I have:

- ls there such a thing as a Smart Solar Geyser? Something with maybe a network port or built in WiFi to monitor the geyser, or configure settings (if any?). Don't want to buy a dumb solar geyser if there are smart ones available, if the additional cost is reasonable and the extra functionality useful.

Not a smart geyser but you need to get a controller to control the settings so you could get any solar geyser and lump on a smart controller (something like the geyserwise Online controller) - although TBH i think it's a bit expensive the standard geyserwise max works fine for me just no controlling from outside your home but there's a decent control unit in your house.
also note it does depend on the type of geyser you use as well.

- What happens to the solar geyser if I am away for say 1-2 weeks or more? Can it be switched off? I've heard some people mention that you need to cover it with a blanket otherwise you can run into issues, but this has its own issues if there are strong winds. Are there no solar geysers that handle this automatically, or can be switched off, or have a motorised cover to block out the sun? Or have I been listening to nonsense?

Again i am using a geyserwise - so you put it on holiday mode and it turns off any back up elements and does not pump water during the day, it only pumps water into the collector at about 6pm to cool the collector and prevent it from cracking

- What happens if you have a week of bad weather with no/little sun? Can these geysers switch to mains supply in order to heat the water? Can this be disabled altogether? Or enabled/disabled remotely via an app / smart functionality? If I plan to eventually go offgrid, can the solar geyser tap off battery storage for bad weather days? Can some sort of limit be set for this so as not to deplete my batteries on water heating?

again basing on my standard geyserwise it runs on electricity based on the items i set but only the water did not reach the desired temp from solar heating at those times
their is a demo of their smart controller here

Geyserwise | RMA

Geyserwise

www.geyserwiseonline.com

• Username: [email protected]
• Password: demo1234

- What is the general rule about payback period on a solar geyser? Can I recover my investment in say 5 years just from the savings on electricity charges?

no ida TBH - just know the hotter the day the less electricity you use - this week it's been really good

- Are there any insurance approved geysers that someone can recommend? I know Standard Bank Insurance will only cover a solar geyser if the installer/supplier gives you a 10 year warranty on the geyser (so what is the point of insurance on the geyser then?) and produces a COC.

Insurance sent theses guys to fix mine -they seemed ok

Plumbing Johannesburg | Leaks | Blockages | Solar | Geysers

Plumbing Johannesburg is regarded as insurance plumbing specialists with experience in Solar Water Heating, Heat Pumps and Leak Detections.

www.plumbingjohannesburg.co.za

- What ballpark figure should I be looking at for a complete solution with installation?

depending if you converting or full install also size of geyser
but you looking at about +/-13k - 16k for a 200l geyser

 

[isie]

Also @Saajid instead of getting 1 300L geyser split it rather get 2 x150l geysers (if you can afford to)
split the bathroom and match the least used bathroom with the kitchen - i find the kitchen the biggest waste and you going to need to heat water more often because of it.

or get only one for the bathroom and install a gas geyser for the kitchen to use (that's what i did)

 

[Dairyfarmer]

What happens if you have a week of bad weather with no/little sun? Can these geysers switch to mains supply in order to heat the water? Can this be disabled altogether? Or enabled/disabled remotely via an app / smart functionality? If I plan to eventually go offgrid, can the solar geyser tap off battery storage for bad weather days? Can some sort of limit be set for this so as not to deplete my batteries on water heating?

If your current geyser is ok, leave it in place, but feed it with water from the solar geyser. That way the geyser will use very little electricity.

You could install a Sonoff POW2 on your geyser. You can use this to monitor the power consumption of your geyser as well as set timers. Install it before you get a solar geyser so you have a baseline to work off. Once you have a solar geyser you can manage the times your geyser is on or off. When you finally go off grid, have a gas water heater as a backup.

There are other options if you can find a way to get a temperature probe into the geyser. Some people just clamp the probe on the geyser outlet pipe, but you can only use this reading when hot water (or the lack thereof) is being used. Unless you use a circulating pump.

On circulating pumps, these are great if you can run them off solar. All it does is continuously pumps hot water around the system so that, when you open the hot tap, you have instant hot water. No more wasting water waiting for the hot water to get all the way to the kitchen.

I've heard some people mention that you need to cover it with a blanket

From experience, the only time I have seen problems is when installing. I saw this guy installing a system on a stinking hot day and he did not cover the tubes. When he opened the cold water supply all the tubes broke as cold water came into contact with hot tubes. Safety valves should take care of the rest.

 

[Hemi300c]

Firstly never insure through a bank insurance product because their wording and premiums are ridiculous.

I have a Suntank 200L geyser with controller.
Set required temp and leave
You can switch of electric backup power totally or have it warm the water up at certain times when cloudy

Make sure you get the CoC

Best to have a gas geyser in the kitchen to stop continuous opening of taps

I have saved and it paid for itself within about 2 years

On going R1250 every 2nd year for service.

Cost was 5 years ago about R17 000 with controller

Very happy

 

[ToxicBunny]

I just have to, I can't resist.

Have a chat with @Splinter, he has an oke who is an expert on this topic.

 

[InTheCube]

Thanks for all the replies and info, appreciate it.

So just a bit of background. My current setup is heatpump + geyser tank (150/200L i think?). The heatpump no longer works and is switched off. The heat pump used to heat up the water, and send it to the geyser. The geyser would remain off 90% of the time. I would manually switch it on only if there were issues with the heatpump. Quote to repair it is around R7k, but doesn't come with much warranty as the heatpump is already 7 years old. So now the regular geyser is being used to heat up water off Eskom supply, and I think it makes more sense to take that R7k and add in extra to go full solar. Heat pumps are also a pain as they require regular servicing which comes at a cost.

Ideally, I would like a complete solution that sits on the roof. So something that integrates the tank and solar collectors / vaccuum tubes / PV panels. Then I can remove the heat pump and old geyser tank completely to regain some outdoor space. My outdoor space is a bit limited and I don't like clutter. Having everything on the roof will be the ideal solution.

Budget would be R25k to R30k.

If your current geyser is ok, leave it in place, but feed it with water from the solar geyser. That way the geyser will use very little electricity.

Current geyser is OK, no issues. But like I said, my ideal setup would be a complete system that integrates the tank and solar equipment into one unit that sits on the roof. But perhaps I should consider this. Have to check size of current geyser (150 or 200L I think). Its a bit too small for our family of 5. If I need to go bigger, then trying to re-use it makes no sense.

You could install a Sonoff POW2 on your geyser. You can use this to monitor the power consumption of your geyser as well as set timers. Install it before you get a solar geyser so you have a baseline to work off. Once you have a solar geyser you can manage the times your geyser is on or off. When you finally go off grid, have a gas water heater as a backup.

There are other options if you can find a way to get a temperature probe into the geyser. Some people just clamp the probe on the geyser outlet pipe, but you can only use this reading when hot water (or the lack thereof) is being used. Unless you use a circulating pump.

I have some SONOFF smart light switches already. Will look into the POW2. But I assume the POW2 will onyl be useful if I stick with the regular geyser tank and let the solar setup feed into it? The POW2 then manages power to the regular geyser. The geyser already has a temperature probe inside, this was utilised by the heat pump when it was still working. Will the POW2 (or something similar) be able to utilise this?

On circulating pumps, these are great if you can run them off solar. All it does is continuously pumps hot water around the system so that, when you open the hot tap, you have instant hot water. No more wasting water waiting for the hot water to get all the way to the kitchen.

This sounds like something I would definitely want. The kids, wife and domestic tend to waste a lot of water, esp in winter, waiting for the hot water to get to the tap. How effective are these circulating pumps? How does it work so that I get hot water instantly out the hot water temp? Will my existing plumbing need any modifications? Or can this pump just be installed anywhere in the system? I would only go for this, as you said, if it can be fed off solar. I guess I will need a seperate PV solar panel to drive this pump? And I guess pumping hot water constantly throughout the hot water pipes will save water, but will lead to heat loss. None of the pipes inside the roof are insulated. But if the pump is driven off solar, and the water is heated via solar, it won't matter.

 

[isie]

Thanks for all the replies and info, appreciate it.

So just a bit of background. My current setup is heatpump + geyser tank (150/200L i think?). The heatpump no longer works and is switched off. The heat pump used to heat up the water, and send it to the geyser. The geyser would remain off 90% of the time. I would manually switch it on only if there were issues with the heatpump. Quote to repair it is around R7k, but doesn't come with much warranty as the heatpump is already 7 years old. So now the regular geyser is being used to heat up water off Eskom supply, and I think it makes more sense to take that R7k and add in extra to go full solar. Heat pumps are also a pain as they require regular servicing which comes at a cost.

No homeowners insurance?

Ideally, I would like a complete solution that sits on the roof. So something that integrates the tank and solar collectors / vaccuum tubes / PV panels. Then I can remove the heat pump and old geyser tank completely to regain some outdoor space. My outdoor space is a bit limited and I don't like clutter. Having everything on the roof will be the ideal solution.

Budget would be R25k to R30k.

I think your best bet is a EV tube Thermosiphon geyser on the roof

Current geyser is OK, no issues. But like I said, my ideal setup would be a complete system that integrates the tank and solar equipment into one unit that sits on the roof. But perhaps I should consider this. Have to check size of current geyser (150 or 200L I think). Its a bit too small for our family of 5. If I need to go bigger, then trying to re-use it makes no sense.

my suggestion if you need bigger is to go with 2 smaller geysers - trust me its more efficient.
either convert the current one to solar and then get another 150L or just get 2 x150L geysers (rough calcs its in your budget) put each as close to the bathrooms / kitchen as possible.

 

[InTheCube]

- What happens to the solar geyser if I am away for say 1-2 weeks or more? Can it be switched off? I've heard some people mention that you need to cover it with a blanket otherwise you can run into issues, but this has its own issues if there are strong winds. Are there no solar geysers that handle this automatically, or can be switched off, or have a motorised cover to block out the sun? Or have I been listening to nonsense?

what issues?
No need to switch off. geyser has safety valves in case it exceeds pressure limits. (checked regularly)
mine is on top of house roof - never had issues with wind or rain.

I've heard that you have to cover the geyser, otherwise it keeps boiling the water non-stop, without any hot water being used. This can damage the solar geyser. So some people throw a blanket over it. If I have to do this, it will be a pain. If the are strong winds, the blanket could get blown off, and damage the solar geyser in the process. Also, it would interfere with outdoor sensors on the alarm system. It could also blown on to the electric fence.

some have eskom backup power via a geserwise unit- I hate eskom - so I have gas backup (2018) - never run out of hot water. fark eskom!!
- get gas for back up / cooking & heating

So we already use gas for majority of the cooking using a gas stove. For heating we have 2 x gas heaters on wheels that use 9kg gas cylinders (not ideal, but OK for now. I evetually want to do away with these and get a better more permanent setup).

I had a gas water heat about years back (Totai brand I think) before I moved into the current house. It was a royal PITA. I hated it. When opening the hot water tap, the sudden increase in water flow activates the gas geyser, which lights a flame and opens the gas. Then you wait for the hot water to arrive. Many times the gas wouldn't be open and lit immediately, so you would have to close the tap and open it again, then wait and see. Sometimes the wind would blow out the flame, and you wouldn't know about it, until your hot shower in winter goes from hot to ice cold. I took the darn thing out and replaced it with a regular geyser. I'm not sure if current gas geysers are any better, but that one was a total nightmare. Then I also had to replace 48kg cylinders like once a month or once every 2 months.

Regarding your own setup, how does the gas geyser integrate into the whole system? Is it a completely seperate system? Or is piping and the tank shared?

 

[InTheCube]

Regarding insurance, the house is still on a homeloan through Standard Bank, and included is compulsory building insurance. I did try to claim for repairs to the Heat Pump, but they rejected it with some BS story that really pissed me off. Apparently electrical/surge damage is not covered when it comes to geysers/water heating equipment, and the report from the company doing the maintenance on the heat pump seemed to suggest this as a potential cause, though they didn't say for certain.

 

[isie]

I've heard that you have to cover the geyser, otherwise it keeps boiling the water non-stop, without any hot water being used. This can damage the solar geyser. So some people throw a blanket over it. If I have to do this, it will be a pain. If the are strong winds, the blanket could get blown off, and damage the solar geyser in the process. Also, it would interfere with outdoor sensors on the alarm system. It could also blown on to the electric fence.

different systems different stories but you have elements to prevent this happening (temp controller overflow valves etc) a blanket is not one of them - if a person has to put a blanket they haven't installed it correctly or are doing something their family do and not realised its not needed.

I had a gas water heat about years back (Totai brand I think) before I moved into the current house. It was a royal PITA. I hated it. When opening the hot water tap, the sudden increase in water flow activates the gas geyser, which lights a flame and opens the gas. Then you wait for the hot water to arrive. Many times the gas wouldn't be open and lit immediately, so you would have to close the tap and open it again, then wait and see. Sometimes the wind would blow out the flame, and you wouldn't know about it, until your hot shower in winter goes from hot to ice cold. I took the darn thing out and replaced it with a regular geyser. I'm not sure if current gas geysers are any better, but that one was a total nightmare. Then I also had to replace 48kg cylinders like once a month or once every 2 months.

I have a gas geyser for the kitchen only and do not experience it ever going out like how you mentioned.
yes usage is high 9KG in winter (with cooking) gets used up in a month , in summer 2 maybe 3 months (without the geyser a tank would last like 6 months

Regarding your own setup, how does the gas geyser integrate into the whole system? Is it a completely seperate system? Or is piping and the tank shared?

not my set up but you get a thermostatic valve basically the water hits the valve - if its hot enough it goes straight to the tap - if its not it goes to the gas geyser warms up then goes to the tap so a bit of extra piping is needed for that divert

Regarding insurance, the house is still on a homeloan through Standard Bank, and included is compulsory building insurance. I did try to claim for repairs to the Heat Pump, but they rejected it with some BS story that really pissed me off. Apparently electrical/surge damage is not covered when it comes to geysers/water heating equipment, and the report from the company doing the maintenance on the heat pump seemed to suggest this as a potential cause, though they didn't say for certain.

That seems like a BS story - if i were you i would take it to the ombudsman - worst case nothing happens best case they pay you out

 

[Dairyfarmer]

The geyser already has a temperature probe inside, this was utilised by the heat pump when it was still working. Will the POW2 (or something similar) be able to utilise this?

The POW:
Can handle 3500w @ 16a
Has customisable Overload Protection (min and max power, max current and max voltage)
Records kwh and displays them per day and cost if you add the R/kwh
Can do all the timers and schedules other Sonoff devices can.

This sounds like something I would definitely want. The kids, wife and domestic tend to waste a lot of water, esp in winter, waiting for the hot water to get to the tap. How effective are these circulating pumps? How does it work so that I get hot water instantly out the hot water temp? Will my existing plumbing need any modifications? Or can this pump just be installed anywhere in the system?

You would have to loop your hot water pipe back to the geyser. It is just a small circulating pump that keeps the water flowing through the pipes.

 

[InTheCube]

So can anyone recommend a company / installer in the JHB area? Not interested in smaller companies (I think, unless someone can convince me otherwise). Would prefer a bigger company that can provide long-term support, and has multiple teams to service customers, and has more experience and history.

So far I'm looking at UberSolar. Still checking out others.

 

[isie]

So can anyone recommend a company / installer in the JHB area? Not interested in smaller companies (I think, unless someone can convince me otherwise). Would prefer a bigger company that can provide long-term support, and has multiple teams to service customers, and has more experience and history.

So far I'm looking at UberSolar. Still checking out others.

Checking their site they don't say what type of or if they actually use any type of controller?

 

[Rocket-Boy]

Im pretty sure most companies install a timer along with the solar geyser.
I had one installed about 4 months back and it cost R15k for a 150l. That was installed with timer etc.
Initially I was going to ditch the timer and run a POW R2 on it seeing as my entire house is automated, but after watching things for a while there really wasnt a need to do it.
I can leave the breaker turned off and I still have hot water whenever its needed so its going to run like that until winter when I will check again.

 

[isie]

Im pretty sure most companies install a timer along with the solar geyser.
I had one installed about 4 months back and it cost R15k for a 150l. That was installed with timer etc.
Initially I was going to ditch the timer and run a POW R2 on it seeing as my entire house is automated, but after watching things for a while there really wasnt a need to do it.
I can leave the breaker turned off and I still have hot water whenever its needed so its going to run like that until winter when I will check again.

A "dumb" timer is really not worth it IMHO - you need something to monitor and show temps - and allow for manual and time based switching on of the back up element, from personal experience this helps (especially knowing the temp) a lot in increasing your savings overall.

 

[Goobie]

I've heard that you have to cover the geyser, otherwise it keeps boiling the water non-stop, without any hot water being used. This can damage the solar geyser. So some people throw a blanket over it. If I have to do this, it will be a pain. If the are strong winds, the blanket could get blown off, and damage the solar geyser in the process. Also, it would interfere with outdoor sensors on the alarm system. It could also blown on to the electric fence.

This was a concern for me as well as my geyserwise shows that the temperature went over 80C easily on multiple occasions . I came up with a solution that works very well: A Sonoff TH10 measures the temperature on the hotwater pipe near the geyser. When it hits 70C, it signals a Sonoff basic with a 220V solenoid valve to open the hotwater tap in the kitchen under the sink. This dumps hot water down the dishwasher's waste pipe until the temperature hits 60C, then it shuts the valve. This is fully automated and keeps the temperature below 70C in the geyser.
(yes I know there are other build in safety features, I'll keep them for when there is loadshedding).

...and I know the soldering job looks shitty. I tried. That penis shaped thing is a water hammer arrestor off Amazon

 

[Dairyfarmer]

A Sonoff TH10 measures the temperature on the hotwater pipe near the geyser.

Have you accounted for the heat dispersion of the copper pipe (a heat sink) and that the temp of the water in the pipe and in the geyser are different? You would need to set the temperature to dump much lower.

 

[Dairyfarmer]

That penis shaped thing is a water hammer arrestor off Amazon

A NRV (non return valve) on either side does the same. You should actually have a NRV either side of your geyser anyway to stop hot water running back (syphoning) into the cold water if the cold water supply is interrupted. Also helps stop air in the pipes when the water supply is interrupted.