guest2013-1
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they're lazy
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Recruitment agents - again
- Thread starter Ancalagon
- Start date
they're lazy
Yes, everybody wants the best candidates. But getting the CV multiple times falls in the same category as getting it on pink flowery paper, aka damages the initial impression. One cannot help but get a spam feeling, even if the candidate is very good. But it is not a big issue, so depends on how rushed you are and if you are looking for a position at a specific company or just something general.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
Made that mistake, never again.
While I did get my current job through an agent (again), this time I was more on the ball. She did not bother with a skills matrix or lock me into a contract. She actually acted more as an HR representative to my new employer than a money grabbing agent. Would recommend her any day.
Pho3nix
The Legend
I just had a new experience. I just got approached by a recruiter to try to get me to apply for my current job. (Well, for another position identical to mine, that will end up sitting within 20 meters of me kind of thing.)
InvisibleJim
Expert Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
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InvisibleJim
Expert Member
- Joined
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<rant>
I believe that the reason so many agencies are fond of making you jump through hoops like skills matrices and shlepping from the East Rand to Randburg to answer some questions that could have been adequately covered in a 10 minute telephone conversation on the offchance that they might put you forward for a job in Heidelberg is to give the perception of added value to clients in terms of what is being done to "Thoroughly pre-screen candidates for your vacancy Mr/Ms client."
In actual fact, this is a massive waste of time in the case of grey collar and most white collar roles into which the majority of IT and technical level roles fall (although in certain blue collar/unskilled and senior roles I feel a more face to face approach is valid.)
Most of the time, the information that they need to decide whether a CV should be submitted or not can be ascertained via a telephone conversation (how many of you have attended interviews at agencies only to be told that your rate or salary was too high for the position?)
As candidates and clients, we should require recruitment companies to be capable of this.
</rant>
I believe that the reason so many agencies are fond of making you jump through hoops like skills matrices and shlepping from the East Rand to Randburg to answer some questions that could have been adequately covered in a 10 minute telephone conversation on the offchance that they might put you forward for a job in Heidelberg is to give the perception of added value to clients in terms of what is being done to "Thoroughly pre-screen candidates for your vacancy Mr/Ms client."
In actual fact, this is a massive waste of time in the case of grey collar and most white collar roles into which the majority of IT and technical level roles fall (although in certain blue collar/unskilled and senior roles I feel a more face to face approach is valid.)
Most of the time, the information that they need to decide whether a CV should be submitted or not can be ascertained via a telephone conversation (how many of you have attended interviews at agencies only to be told that your rate or salary was too high for the position?)
As candidates and clients, we should require recruitment companies to be capable of this.
</rant>
RandomGRK
Expert Member
The skills matrix isn't for the client, it's for their records so they can better tie you up to future jobs.
Waste of damn time.
Waste of damn time.
HavocXphere
Honorary Master
ugh I'd die in the IT market. Don't even have a CV...
My biggest rant regarding recruiters is that some of them are so cagey with their information. If they're trying to sell you on their job opportunity, they should at least:
a) make sure that your online cv/linkedin/whatever matches the position to a reasonable degree before contacting you
b) provide information about the job up front
c) provide the salary range up front
The most annoying company recruiter I've dealt with have been Amazon who wanted me to take an online programming test and then talk to 10 different people before they even told me what positions or salary range they were offering - this was stupid - I told them as much. Also, there was Google who wanted me to come for an on-site interview to be grilled, and even then, if they made an offer and if I accepted, they reserved the right to place me wherever they felt was appropriate on my first day - I also told them "no thanks". I understand the whole "finding a fit" thing, but if they give me nothing at all to go on to start with and if I'm happy at my current job, this just doesn't make a very attractive proposal at all - I'm not going to jump through hoops just to get some info - this is precisely what the recruiter is supposed to facillitate.
a) make sure that your online cv/linkedin/whatever matches the position to a reasonable degree before contacting you
b) provide information about the job up front
c) provide the salary range up front
The most annoying company recruiter I've dealt with have been Amazon who wanted me to take an online programming test and then talk to 10 different people before they even told me what positions or salary range they were offering - this was stupid - I told them as much. Also, there was Google who wanted me to come for an on-site interview to be grilled, and even then, if they made an offer and if I accepted, they reserved the right to place me wherever they felt was appropriate on my first day - I also told them "no thanks". I understand the whole "finding a fit" thing, but if they give me nothing at all to go on to start with and if I'm happy at my current job, this just doesn't make a very attractive proposal at all - I'm not going to jump through hoops just to get some info - this is precisely what the recruiter is supposed to facillitate.
Last edited:
MagicDude4Eva
Banned
In all my hiring history a comprehensive CV is the best option. I know many say "keep it brief" but your CV and your LinkedIn profile should really sell what you do. I think the majority of agencies are completely incompetent and in my 15 years of consulting I have always been headhunted. So self-promotion is the best way to do it - on average my CV gets viewed 10 times a day and when I was looking for work I used to get 3-5 calls per day.
An agency will charge an employer between 12% (lowest I have seen) and 25% placement fee based on CTC. Considering that most midlevel jobs go for around 400-500K that works out to 40-100K for a placement. The recruitment agencies I have dealt with make candidates jump through hoops (i.e. they need to reformat their CV because that's the way their clients want to see it / they need to come for a "pre-screening interview" to the agency etc) and do absolutely ZERO in validating the skills and matching it to a company's requirements.
The majority of agency contracts with employers are horrible and all conditions are favouring the agency. The latest trend seems to be now that an agency will only refund the placement fee if the candidate is unfit within 1 month probationary period - quite ridiculous as most companies will use a 3 months probationary period.
So-called "pre-screened"/"perfect fit" candidates read nice on the agency CV and 80% of my interviews showed that candidates lack the skill the agency presented.
All the good staff I have managed to hire has been through word of mouth/referrals or social media and recently posting it on LinkedIn was more successful and cheaper than going through an agency.
For any jobseekers my advice:
- Get your CV on the web and let Google do it's work. Try to rank high for your core competencies (my focus a few years ago was to rank high on the term "cv jee architect" which landed my good contracts locally and overseas)
- Get your LinkedIn profile sorted out. Get recommendations from peers. It's quite shocking how many people don't use it
- Make your FB profile private and share it only with friends/family - recruiters/companies will Google your name
- Have a professional social media presence and try not to post garbage (also avoid having a Twitter/G+ account where your last post is 6 months old)
We have been looking for Snr Test Analysts (focus mobile apps) and good JEE people and agencies have been utterly useless for the last 6 months. I attribute it to the aspect that we are not prepared to pay more than 15% placement fee and agencies will rather forward candidates to higher paying companies with less exciting opportunities.
An agency will charge an employer between 12% (lowest I have seen) and 25% placement fee based on CTC. Considering that most midlevel jobs go for around 400-500K that works out to 40-100K for a placement. The recruitment agencies I have dealt with make candidates jump through hoops (i.e. they need to reformat their CV because that's the way their clients want to see it / they need to come for a "pre-screening interview" to the agency etc) and do absolutely ZERO in validating the skills and matching it to a company's requirements.
The majority of agency contracts with employers are horrible and all conditions are favouring the agency. The latest trend seems to be now that an agency will only refund the placement fee if the candidate is unfit within 1 month probationary period - quite ridiculous as most companies will use a 3 months probationary period.
So-called "pre-screened"/"perfect fit" candidates read nice on the agency CV and 80% of my interviews showed that candidates lack the skill the agency presented.
All the good staff I have managed to hire has been through word of mouth/referrals or social media and recently posting it on LinkedIn was more successful and cheaper than going through an agency.
For any jobseekers my advice:
- Get your CV on the web and let Google do it's work. Try to rank high for your core competencies (my focus a few years ago was to rank high on the term "cv jee architect" which landed my good contracts locally and overseas)
- Get your LinkedIn profile sorted out. Get recommendations from peers. It's quite shocking how many people don't use it
- Make your FB profile private and share it only with friends/family - recruiters/companies will Google your name
- Have a professional social media presence and try not to post garbage (also avoid having a Twitter/G+ account where your last post is 6 months old)
We have been looking for Snr Test Analysts (focus mobile apps) and good JEE people and agencies have been utterly useless for the last 6 months. I attribute it to the aspect that we are not prepared to pay more than 15% placement fee and agencies will rather forward candidates to higher paying companies with less exciting opportunities.
InvisibleJim
Expert Member
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Most of the recruitment companies that we're talking about are working on a contingency basis so they only get paid if they make the placement. It's a Pareto thing - about 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of the work you do so the fees from that 20% has to cover the costs for everything plus a profit.
The fees sound high if your on the receivieng end of them but realistically and agency should tend to be averaging 20% placement fee for permanent placements and in the range 15-20% margin for contracts. Your recruitment business can go to the wall very quickly if you rely on cutting your fees to win business.
Clients who engage a recruitment company should be prepared to pay for the service but they should get service in return. It should be a 2 way business relationship like any other.
The fees sound high if your on the receivieng end of them but realistically and agency should tend to be averaging 20% placement fee for permanent placements and in the range 15-20% margin for contracts. Your recruitment business can go to the wall very quickly if you rely on cutting your fees to win business.
Clients who engage a recruitment company should be prepared to pay for the service but they should get service in return. It should be a 2 way business relationship like any other.