Recruitment agents - again

[Ancalagon]

Hey guys,

So I'm looking for a contract job, and as usual, I'm getting bombarded with messages and calls from agents. Plus requests for skills matrices, etc.

Are there any employers who actually would prefer to look at a skills matrix rather than a CV? I know I'd prefer a CV + an interview.

What do you guys think of agents who demand that a certain process be followed? Has anyone, employer or employee, found these processes to be of value?

I'm needing to follow a process to get an interview, but man, I just want to tell this agent to stuff it, since so many of them are calling me.

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

I've found that employers who require a skills matrix have no idea what they are looking for. Required one for my previous job and never again

 

[Ancalagon]

I've found that employers who require a skills matrix have no idea what they are looking for. Required one for my previous job and never again

What I want to know is, is it the employer or the recruitment agent?

Also, an agent just asked me to sign a contract giving her a 7 day sole mandate to find me a job, with absolutely no guarantees from her side. And the contract also said I understand that the company will suffer damages if either I turn down an offer or get fired in the probation period.

 

[Ejeckt]

Most recruiters don't actually understand what they're recruiting for. I'm an agent and normally work in the engineering industry. Sometimes my manager gives me an IT spec for "an important client", and I find that a matrix would help me pair a candidate with a requisition. But that's only because I don't really know what to look out for on a CV.

If the recruiter knows his industry, or if you're speaking directly to the hiring manager, a matrix is not necessary. In fact, I would just go past the agent and call these companies yourself. The process that you mentioned normally has to be followed in an agency for a whole bunch of reasons - but I don't really think it adds value. Most agents don't really provide value, and only exist because their clients are clueless when it comes to sourcing talent.

If you look hard enough, you can land interviews and offers without having to ever speak to an agent. In fact, some companies may make a hiring decision based on the agents fee. If they have two equally suitable candidates, the placement fee can discourage them from extending an offer to an applicant brought forward by an agency.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think if I was looking for a permanent job, I could pick and choose and not have to use agents. But because I need a contract job, I need them.

Funnily enough, my former boss (now an agent, but thankfully knows what she is talking about) is the only one to have got me an interview so far.

 

[Ejeckt]

What I want to know is, is it the employer or the recruitment agent?

Also, an agent just asked me to sign a contract giving her a 7 day sole mandate to find me a job, with absolutely no guarantees from her side. And the contract also said I understand that the company will suffer damages if either I turn down an offer or get fired in the probation period.

I think I know which agency you're talking about (or perhaps there are way more than I think). Don't ever sign anything like that. Actually, don't sign anything with an agent. Never. If an agent doesn't give you the name of their client or as many details as they can about the position, don't bother with them. On the flipside, if an agent gives you the title and company and many details, don't go behind their back

 

[lucifir]

I tend to tell them to jump off a bridge
all the detail is in the cv ... they just to lazy to format it however they like .... what do they get paid for anyways??
the ones that piss me off the most are the ones that call you once a year only to ask you to redo their skills matrix .... I am reserving a special place in hell for them

 

[Fiekus]

I've employed a few people in my time and my experience is that if your CV tells me enough about your experience I won't need a skills-matrix. You won't believe the shocking CV's I've seen where after reading it I have no idea what skills the person will bring to the role. You might argue that it could come out in an interview but if I get 30 plus CV's for one position, I tend to look for the skills and experience I need. An example would be recruiting for a java developer. If our company is a Oracle house for example, I would like to see that in your skills matrix and what level you are, e.g. 3 out of 5. Any other exposure to an application server would also be helpful, so I tend to look at the projects you did and the companies you worked at and if I don't "see" that experience, the skills matrix is handy.
On recruitment agents, remember they serve two masters imho. They have to have a great relationship with the company so that they are one of the preferred suppliers as well as make you happy so that you land the job and get them that commission. Apart from doing recruitment, I've also been approached by a few agencies and I also put my foot down when they want my CV in "their" format. What I do is send them my CV and tell them to redo it, that's what they're gonna get paid for
Good luck!

 

[guest2013-1]

Never believed in skills matrix (I forget half the **** I know anyway), I have a concise CV enough to entice the recipient for an interview and we can discuss more in there.

 

[icyrus]

There are no agents in the local IT industry who know what they are doing. They are all utterly useless.

The biggest problem is that companies don't list their positions publicly as they don't want to deal with the admin and think that outsourcing this to agents will benefit them.

 

[guest2013-1]

There are no agents in the local IT industry who know what they are doing. They are all utterly useless.

The biggest problem is that companies don't list their positions publicly as they don't want to deal with the admin and think that outsourcing this to agents will benefit them.

+1

However, I've found companies like RSAWEB also not knowing WTF they're doing when doing recruitment. Endless posts for a position "Anywhere" in the country, but then in the actual post specifying that its for Cape Tonians only. Or looking for a Web Developer, but listing web designer skillsets etc. Apparently "coding HTML" is a "developer" job as well as being able to do **** in photoshop

 

[Beachless]

I like getting a skills matrix because I can throw out all the candidates that give themselves 5/5 for everything.

 

[ciruis]

There are no agents in the local IT industry who know what they are doing. They are all utterly useless.

I think you are talking out of your bum.

The problem with recruitment, especially in IT, is that the majority of so called "recruiters" become recruiters immediately after graduating. How are these people supposed to know the industry at all ? Never mind source talent effectively.

On the flip side, there are agents out there, who do know what they are doing. Unfortunately their life becomes such hell because of these larger agencies utilising cheap labour (graduates) rather than sourcing their own personnel which has the correct experience and judgement within said industry.

I know of a JSE listed group that owns a few agencies that does this. Needless to say their own staff % turn around is utterly disgusting.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think you are talking out of your bum.

The problem with recruitment, especially in IT, is that the majority of so called "recruiters" become recruiters immediately after graduating. How are these people supposed to know the industry at all ? Never mind source talent effectively.

On the flip side, there are agents out there, who do know what they are doing. Unfortunately their life becomes such hell because of these larger agencies utilising cheap labour (graduates) rather than sourcing their own personnel which has the correct experience and judgement within said industry.

I know of a JSE listed group that owns a few agencies that does this. Needless to say their own staff % turn around is utterly disgusting.

Show me a good agent then. One who actually does some work, who doesnt need a skills matrix.

 

[icyrus]

I think you are talking out of your bum.

You can think what you like.

The problem with recruitment, especially in IT, is that the majority of so called "recruiters" become recruiters immediately after graduating. How are these people supposed to know the industry at all ? Never mind source talent effectively.

I highly doubt that many if practically any recruitment agents have graduated from IT degrees. Nor does it excuse incompetence.

On the flip side, there are agents out there, who do know what they are doing. Unfortunately their life becomes such hell because of these larger agencies utilising cheap labour (graduates) rather than sourcing their own personnel which has the correct experience and judgement within said industry.

One would think that an agent who knows what they are doing would be worth their weight in gold considering the immense lack thereof in this country.

I know of a JSE listed group that owns a few agencies that does this. Needless to say their own staff % turn around is utterly disgusting.

I can't help but notice that you haven't given any indication of how I was wrong other than stating that there may be agents out there who know what they are doing.

 

[gkm]

As mentioned above, a skills matrix is purely to enable the agent to match people to positions, since that can be done on a deterministic way, while reading a CV for a job, one actually needs to know the technologies involved, so the CV will be more interesting to the employer in my experience. I sometimes glance at a skills matrix, but rarely more than a couple of seconds. But I think you need to see the skills matrix as a necessary evil to make your CV go to the right employers.

Never sign anything with the recruiter, especially not something where you cannot refuse a job. I am fairly involved in recruiting devs and I would be horrified thinking that I might offer a job to a candidate, which the candidate can then not be open with me about saying it is not going to work out from their perspective.

That being said, probably best to work with one agency at a time. One thing I really hate is getting the same CV from multiple agencies on the same day and then having to figure out which one to engage with for the candidate.

 

[Ancalagon]

That being said, probably best to work with one agency at a time. One thing I really hate is getting the same CV from multiple agencies on the same day and then having to figure out which one to engage with for the candidate.

Best for you maybe, but the candidate, its best to go to as many agents as possible.

 

[gkm]

Best for you maybe, but the candidate, its best to go to as many agents as possible.

Not so sure, because often it is easier to just discard the CV if it will be a problem. If you are in a real hurry to get a job, then go multiple agencies, but since they often send to the same companies, I do not think it will always increase your coverage that much.

 

[Ancalagon]

Not so sure, because often it is easier to just discard the CV if it will be a problem. If you are in a real hurry to get a job, then go multiple agencies, but since they often send to the same companies, I do not think it will always increase your coverage that much.

Surely its in your best interest to get the best candidate, even if his CV was sent to 100 agents?

 

[Vohligh]

I had to deal with a recruiter recently, who wanted me to complete the recruiter's skills matrix even though I had my own skills matrix in my CV.