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Question of the Day: How do you normally pay for purchases in stores?
Regret leaving previous job
- Thread starter JohnStarr
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Johnatan56
Honorary Master
All depends on what you work on, your type of work would be very weird to job hop very often as the pool of talent is very small, would be very bad on the company if anyone left in <5 years there as most of your projects take years.
I'm not a hiring manager, but junior should be 1 year is fine for job hopping, especially if switching roles (e.g. front end to full stack or full stack to specialization), about 1.5 years for non-junior and again, if swapping roles 1 year is fine, but going senior it should be at least 2 years. At senior level you should know what it is that you want to be doing, and you should be able to realize if a job is for/not for you within a few months so you know when to leave.
If you're already working on quite specialized work, outside of junior, and your pay is good, then I would agree that 3/4 years move is strange unless moving countries or something like business closed.
Never do that, most of your best job offers come from co-workers that move companies as well.
You'll need that reference for most companies. The argument is don't stagnate, if you're only getting inflation related increases on an average base when you're putting in better work than average, then start looking.
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When we see anyone's resume (whatever level we're hiring at), and it's filled with < 3 year stints at companies, we'll pass. It's just not a good investment to have people spend time helping someone to ramp up, just so they can leave by the time they're reaching a good level of competency. I appreciate that not all industries are like this, but when a significant amount of technical complexity is involved, it usually is.
The other point made on jumping for progression is also interesting - it may work in some industries, but it will ultimately cap out early, since it will constrain the employee to more mundane industries. If you look up "distinguished engineer <company>", or "director <company>" on LinkedIn there will almost always be long runs in the 8-20 year range.
Jet-Fighter7700
Honorary Master
while I agree with @Johnatan56 that longevity shows commitment,
I also agree with @Thugscub , in that companies these days, treat people like you might a pair of pliers or a screwdriver in a toolbox,
yes, its not the same everywhere, and some companies really put the time energy and commitment into their staff,
and their staff appreciate it, and stay with them forever.
(train people well enough to leave tomorrow, treat them well, so they wont want to- Richard Branson)
Sadly, not everybody behaves this way anymore.
Covid, is a big wake up call for many people I bet,
Many got retrenched even at their so called "stable" jobs,
and had to face the harsh world filled with incompetent recruiters who only wish waste your time.
so again, Yes, Job hopping is not good, but again, it depends on your perception of Job hopping,
somebody who learned a lot from each hop, could be valuable to the "right" kind of company
who identifies somebody like this as somebody who has tenacity and staying power.
and might be worth a look at , over somebody who has always done the same thing for years with the same people.
I also agree with @Thugscub , in that companies these days, treat people like you might a pair of pliers or a screwdriver in a toolbox,
yes, its not the same everywhere, and some companies really put the time energy and commitment into their staff,
and their staff appreciate it, and stay with them forever.
(train people well enough to leave tomorrow, treat them well, so they wont want to- Richard Branson)
Sadly, not everybody behaves this way anymore.
Covid, is a big wake up call for many people I bet,
Many got retrenched even at their so called "stable" jobs,
and had to face the harsh world filled with incompetent recruiters who only wish waste your time.
so again, Yes, Job hopping is not good, but again, it depends on your perception of Job hopping,
somebody who learned a lot from each hop, could be valuable to the "right" kind of company
who identifies somebody like this as somebody who has tenacity and staying power.
and might be worth a look at , over somebody who has always done the same thing for years with the same people.
Mr Justice
Expert Member
No, but have you ever been unfairly dismissed from a job that was your dream and passion. Yes, definitely.
This scene broke me... NO RAGRETS!
Mr Justice
Expert Member
Really love this post because my resume is all over the place from retail to selling computers, motorcycles and plumbing and journalism. And I can contest to the fact. If a company treats me well and fair I would stay there forever.
Jet-Fighter7700
Honorary Master
same here, unfortunately, due to many factors, those companies hardly exist these days, that keep staff forever.
most companies, as @Thugscub mentioned just want to make a buck, and dont care who they step on top of to get there.
sad reality of the situation, seen it firsthand, more than I ever want to admit.
How would somebody who job hops be identified as having tenacity and staying power? More than likely, any given company would be wondering if there was something wrong with them.
Jet-Fighter7700
Honorary Master
somebody who hops one could say they learn from each hop,
could say they have tenacity in dealing with problems on the job, as they simply dont give up when dealing with issues.
they show a willingness to challenge the status quo and solve problems better than somebody who might not go down that route.
again, its all about perception, as @MickeyDangerez said,
Hoping around builds up your skills base it gives one a vast amount of knowledge to be able to start one's own business and understanding the dynamics of people.
Keep your friends close your enemies closer.
I'd rather employ a person who has hopped around than a staid employee who has done the same thing over and over again for 20 years.
Think out of the box.
Keep your friends close your enemies closer.
I'd rather employ a person who has hopped around than a staid employee who has done the same thing over and over again for 20 years.
Think out of the box.
Well they can say that but how do you know that the reason that they left wasn't because they came up against an issue that was too hard so they quit?
It also limits the scope and complexity of what you work on, and more than likely hints that you either quit before you got fired or quit because you didn’t do your job well enough to get a raise. It’s even possible that it’s just a series of mostly firings for all the resume reader can tell.
While I agree that staying a long time at a firm doesn’t necessarily mean that anything by itself, apart from the fact you didn’t suck, if one is good at their job, one can usually demonstrate a series of promotions and projects to illustrate competence as well as a portfolio that is both diverse and complex.
Lots of assumptions there, which I don't agree with.
I'll use myself as an example.
My father died when I was 15, and my mother's mental illness made me not trust her for guidance. From the age of 15 onwards, I decided what to do and why to do it. One of the things that I did not do was find a role model that I could trust for advice. That would have given me stability and a balanced perspective. But, it didn't even occur to me.
Lack of a role model, plus not even realising why a role model would be a good idea, plus emotional problems caused by my traumatic childhood, made my career unstable. It's inevitable, when you think about it. It took me years to realise this.
Anyway, eventually I grew up and became a bit more stable, but by then, I had several <2 year jobs and some <3 year jobs on my CV.
In some cases, I wasn't a great employee, but in some cases, I was an amazing employee. But I lacked the insight to become a consistently amazing employee. That takes some doing, and I'm learning how to do it now.
Do I regret the instability of my early career? Of course! I made loads of mistakes. I quit my first job after 6 months remember. I remember my bosses telling me it was a stupid idea. They were right, but I was too stubborn to listen. I can't change the past though, I can only learn from it.
So, I think if you were to evaluate someone else's career history, I'd probably place a bias on the more recent work. If you're 22, even if you come from a stable household (unlike me), with the greatest respect, you just have no idea what you want or how to get it. For a lot of people, this applies if you're under 30 I'd say.
Another anecdote - one of our best employees, who I won't name because you might poach him, is a young guy who was fired from his previous job. But now that he is working for us, he is on his way to success. Why the change? I don't know. But I know he has got what it takes to be successful as a software engineer.
Nithan15
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The company I worked used the micromanagement approach and there were glass ceilings. Left on good terms and loving the new company been here for 7 years now, at first it was an adjustments esp the traffic etc but now I really appreciate and enjoy it.
I was in my previous company for over 10 years so I proved that I am loyal.
TedLasso
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Agree. At my company for just nearing 20 years (senior manager). Feel like maybe I should have moved ,but my career encompassed many roles including multiple countries . Missed a role to be based in Singapore two years ago, and this year was supposed to be in US (sideways move, but at the most important subsidiary) but COVID hit.
Still get the itch often (becos !!) but what my company offers ito benefits no other company comes close, like full med aid for family, pension plan like no other, etc.
Right now I value my 30 days leave a year, the most. Always grates me looking at other positions (at least locally) that I would start off again at 18 days.
But never burn bridges ! They have a way of needing to be resurrected sometimes !!
HavocXphere
Honorary Master
I'd say 3+ years is fine as long as you're getting promoted at steady pace
Same thing happened to me. They ended up telling the clients board that I'm bouncing Friday...didn't go well. I think it's just procrastination - nobody wants to have that chat if there isn't a backup plan so people just push it out until they can't anymore.
Toxxyc
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My first job was physically digging trenches for optic fiber cables. I worked my way up there and eventually managed a few people. Still miss that job. Did my work, got pay and if I did a bit extra I could often score myself a day off on a Friday.
Make that 15. The legal minimum most companies give is 15.