Republican sparks outrage over 'legitimate rape' comments

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...icism-call-to-exit-senate-race/#ixzz246jyFv5k



So what is the Republican stance on pro-life ?

Life is life and must be protected at all costs but if it's rape or incest or to protect the life of the mother then all of a sudden life is not life ?

I don't really think anyone can come up with a good argument against rape, incest or the life or the mother being at risk. The pregnancy of a minor should also fall into the category (which probably comes to the life of the mother).

As for allowing abortion for ordinary good time sex (where you can't find a condom somehow) then that really comes down to where you define where life begins. Which is very subjective.
 
As for allowing abortion for ordinary good time sex (where you can't find a condom somehow) then that really comes down to where you define where life begins. Which is very subjective.
Informed pro-choicers and pro-lifers agree that the beginning of a human being is at fertilization. The debate is around the beginning of personhood. Pro-lifers, in general i.e. not all, argue that all human beings are persons while pro-choicers generally i.e. not all, argue at some later stage.
 
Informed pro-choicers and pro-lifers agree that the beginning of a human being is at fertilization. The debate is around the beginning of personhood. Pro-lifers, in general i.e. not all, argue that all human beings are persons while pro-choicers generally i.e. not all, argue at some later stage.

no actually pro lifers argue that life starts at 8 weeks or so, after the fetus has all the characteristics of what living is. Else sperm would also be living and I would be killing babies everytime I kap a draaitjie.
 
no actually pro lifers argue that life starts at 8 weeks or so, after the fetus has all the characteristics of what living is. Else sperm would also be living and I would be killing babies everytime I kap a draaitjie.

This is incorrect. As pointed out elsewhere, the fact of the matter is that both informed defenders of pro-life and pro-choice view the fertilized egg, foetus, baby etc. as a human being.

It should be also acknowledged that, in a biological sense, the humanity of the fetus is acknowledged by those on all sides of the debate. Obviously, those who are pro-life hold that the fetus is human in a genetic sense. But Peter Singer, who is not only pro-choice about abortion but also about infanticide, recognizes the same thing:
It is possible to give “human being” a precise meaning. We can use it as equivalent to “member of the species Homo sapiens.” Whether a being is a member of a given species is something that can be determined scientifically, by an examination of the nature of the chromosomes in the cells of living organisms. In this sense, there is no doubt that from the first moments of its existence an embryo conceived from human sperm and eggs is a human being. (Singer 2000, p. 127)
In this, Singer is not alone. The biological humanity of the fetus is admitted by virtually all informed defenders of abortion as shall be evident throughout this book. So in referring to the human fetus or the human being in utero we do not beg any disputed questions.

Kaczor, Christopher (2011-02-18). The Ethics of Abortion: Women's Rights, Human Life, and the Question of Justice (Routledge Annals of Bioethics) (p. 7). T & F Books US. Kindle Edition.

Also,, again pointed out somewhere else, this does not follow that sperm are human beings. There is a difference between a complete thing-in-itself and its parts (A thing-in-itself is a property-bearer that must be distinguished from the properties it bears, link).

Take the example of water/H2O. Water is a thing-in-itself. Oxygen and hydrogen are parts of water. It is simply a fallacy to claim that any collection of parts separated from any water molecule at any time would qualify as water. The same goes for a human being.

A human being is a complete thing-in-itself and has many properties (accident is probably a better term but that is another story). Water is a property. A toenail and hair, sperm and unfertilized eggs, are different kinds of properties (or accidents if you want). It's a fallacy to claim that the properties (or accidents) of a human being (such as sperm and unfertilized eggs) constitute a human being on its own when removed from a human being e.g. toenails, sperm, unfertilized eggs etc.
 
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Todd Akin defiant as GOP leaders withdraw support amid calls to resign

The Republican party leadership has withdrawn financial and political support from a US congressman who is refusing to resign from a Senate race in Missouri after claiming that "legitimate rape" rarely leads to pregnancy.

As pressure mounted from all sides, Todd Akin, chosen last week as Republican candidate in the closely-fought challenge for the Senate in Missouri, apologised for his remarks but refused to step aside.

"I'm not a quitter," he said on a radio show hosted by former Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee. "By the grace of God, we're going to win this race."

He added that the people who had elected him knew he was not perfect and that just because someone made a mistake, it "doesn't make them useless". No-one had called him to suggest he drop out, he said.

His defiance came in spite of criticism from senior Republicans, including White House challenger Mitt Romney and senator John Cornyn, the head of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, which provides funding for candidates. Barack Obama also denounced his remarks.

Both the Republican party and prominent political action committees, known as Super Pacs, said they would withdraw their support. Ad campaigns worth millions of dollars were being scrapped.
 
In a statement, Akin later claimed that he "misspoke" and that his off-the-cuff remarks did not "reflect the deep empathy I hold for the thousands of women who are raped and abused every year".

that is all
 
It's scary what they allow into US politics. This Akin fellow, a Republican, is pro-life, so much so that he came out and said that women who have been raped are not entitled to abort the rapists child because women who are "Legitimately" raped rarely get pregnant. WTF! And he comes from the same party as the Republican party nominee for President, Mitt Romney, who it appears also has some nutbag notions. Scary when you think that people like this might have control of the world's largest nuclear arsenals.
 
It's scary what they allow into US politics. This Akin fellow, a Republican, is pro-life, so much so that he came out and said that women who have been raped are not entitled to abort the rapists child because women who are "Legitimately" raped rarely get pregnant. WTF! And he comes from the same party as the Republican party nominee for President, Mitt Romney, who it appears also has some nutbag notions. Scary when you think that people like this might have control of the world's largest nuclear arsenals.

he believes that the child is a victim too just like i do. if a guy kidnaps you and shoves you AND a random kid into a closet, you're both victims. the kid is a product of the rape. people will disagree on the view, but to each their own. all analogies are bad in this situation because nothing compares to pregnancy
 
This is incorrect. As pointed out elsewhere, the fact of the matter is that both informed defenders of pro-life and pro-choice view the fertilized egg, foetus, baby etc. as a human being.
Say what?

Edit: Aah, I see the smoke you are blowing:

However, anti-choicers insist not only that a fetus is a human being, but that this status is an objective scientific fact. Unfortunately, they are assuming the very thing that requires proving, thereby committing the logical fallacy of "begging the question." Biology, medicine, law, philosophy, and theology have no consensus on the issue, and neither does society as a whole. There will never be a consensus because of the subjective and unscientific nature of the claim, so we must give the benefit of the doubt to women, who are indisputable human beings with rights.

Anti-choicers must claim that fetuses are human beings, of course, or they really have no case against abortion. Since this claim is the cornerstone of their position, it should be critiqued in detail, from philosophical, legal, social, and biological perspectives[2]. Even though it has little relevance for the actual practice of abortion, the assertion that fetuses are human beings has a potentially great impact on the rights of women.

Deconstructing Anti-Choice Language

Before going further, we need to clarify and interpret some anti-choice language. First, anti-choicers often confuse the adjective "human" and the noun "human being," giving them the same meaning. I am struck by the question they often put to pro-choicers: "But isn't it human?" —as if we secretly think a fetus is really a creature from outer space. If you point out that a fetus consists of human tissue and DNA, anti-choicers triumphantly claim you just conceded it's a human being. Now, a flake of dandruff from my head is human, but it is not a human being, and in this sense, neither is a zygote[3]. Anti-choicers will respond that a fertilized egg is not like dandruff, because the fertilized egg consists of a unique set of chromosomes that makes it a separate human being. But with cloning, a cell from my dandruff is enough to create a new human being. Although it would have my identical genetic make-up, it would still be a unique individual, because human beings are much more than our genes (I'll expand on this point later). Also, both a fertilized egg and a cloned cell represent a potential, not an actual human being. It’s a worn cliché, but it bears repeating—an acorn isn’t an oak tree and the egg you had for breakfast isn’t a chicken.

Anti-choicers also use the phrase "humanity of the fetus," by which they may mean its physical human qualities, but it’s ambiguous, maybe purposely so. In this context, the word "humanity" implies compassionate human feelings and virtues, such as pathos or love. The term seems cleverly designed to elicit sympathy for a fetus, and assign it human-like qualities it simply does not have. The ability to feel joy, sadness, anger, and hatred are an integral part of our "human beingness," and we do not learn to develop such sophisticated emotions until we start socially interacting with others.
http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/fetusperson.shtml
 
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Sounds like the Republican party are kicking the guy out now anyway.
They are urging him to drop his campaign for Senator.
 
The author of that article appears to confuse ontological issues for epistemological issues.

From an ontological point of view, both informed defenders of pro-life and pro-choice view, to the best of their knowledge and/or understanding (epistemic), the fertilized egg, foetus, baby etc. as a human being. This is uncontroversial. The important part is "to the best of their knowledge and/or understanding". Neither side can really claim that they really know fr sure that it is the case on an ontological level. There are various philosophical angles to this issue, the important point being is that ontological issues and epistemological issues should not be confused for each other.

As pointed out before, the main issue is when personhood begins or the moment a foetus or a baby or a fertilized egg becomes a human person. Pro-choicers generally argue at some point in time after fertilization while pro-lifers generally argue that human beings are human persons as well.

The author is right that language is misused by both sides. However, a book that does a very good job at clearing out potential pitfalls related to language is The Ethics of Abortion: Women's Rights, Human Life, and the Question of Justice. Give it a read, it explains the issues in good detail.
 
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The beginning of human personhood is the period in an individual's life when he or she is recognized, or begins to be recognized, as a person. The precise timing and nature of this occurrence is not universally agreed upon, and has been the subject of discussion and debate in science, religion and philosophy. The question of when and how personhood begins is the often the nexus of controversy on issues such as abortion, stem cell research, reproductive rights, and fetal rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_personhood


There is no magical "moment" techne. There is a gradual process. Im a gradualist. The longer the fetus is alive the more right it has to life. Im surprised you dont follow your BFF Aristotle on this. He reckoned 4 weeks for boys and 6 weeks for girls.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_personhood


There is no magical "moment" techne. There is a gradual process. Im a gradualist. The longer the fetus is alive the more right it has to life. Im surprised you dont follow your BFF Aristotle on this. He reckoned 4 weeks for boys and 6 weeks for girls.
Your highlighted wiki text just proves my point as to the major issue in the debate. That is, the onset of personhood.

I don't think there is anything wrong or "magical" about the idea that one moment something is NOT a human person and the next moment it is. In fact, it seems pretty simple, commonsensical and logical. The problem is just about when such a moment happens.

The gradualist view you appear to espouse needs some clarification. On your view, or so I understand it, something can go from being 0% human person to 2% to 5% to 50% to 75% etc. At which moment and percentage would it constitute a human person? 50%? 75%? 100%? And at which moment does your gradualist view go from 99% to 100%? It does not appear to make much sense and needlessly complicates things. Occam's razor can probably be applied to a gradualist view.
 
Your highlighted wiki text just proves my point as to the major issue in the debate. That is, the onset of personhood.

I don't think there is anything wrong or "magical" about the idea that one moment something is NOT a human person and the next moment it is. In fact, it seems pretty simple, commonsensical and logical. The problem is just about when such a moment happens.

The gradualist view you appear to espouse needs some clarification. On your view, or so I understand it, something can go from being 0% human person to 2% to 5% to 50% to 75% etc. At which moment and percentage would it constitute a human person? 50%? 75%? 100%? And at which moment does your gradualist view go from 99% to 100%? It does not appear to make much sense and needlessly complicates things. Occam's razor can probably be applied to a gradualist view.

*grabs hat and exits thread*
 
Anybody else here the soundbite from this chop this morning? I'd love to know if the doctor who told him about this 'legitimate' rape thing actually has any medical accreditation.
 
An interesting way to think of abortion is to question the assertion that it's a woman's body and she has the right to do with it what she wants combined with the individuals rights to his children.

Now if I get someone pregnant and they decide they don't want the child (can't blame them personally) then that's my tough luck. What though if we gave the same power to the father ? I don't think the idea of fathers being able to insist the child is aborted would go down well with the ulta liberals. Rather he'd be expected to be responsible for his actions and raise the child/pay maintenance. Now with birth control etc would it be so unreasonable to expect woman to take responsibility for their actions ? Why do they have the right to decide if a child is allowed a chance at life ?

Rape though obviously takes the personal responsibility off the table. I don't think even the most staunch conservative denies this.
 
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Saw this on somebody's FB status....:D

I think the only way to determine if it was a "Legitimate rape" is to throw the woman into the mill pond. If she drowns, it was a legitimate rape. If she floats, she liked it and should be burned at the stake.

...and in other news... I see Akin is refusing to step down.
I wonder if the RP will have enough guts to withdraw their party approval of his senatorial race? :D
 
Saw this on somebody's FB status....:D



...and in other news... I see Akin is refusing to step down.
I wonder if the RP will have enough guts to withdraw their party approval of his senatorial race? :D

They already did I think. I also think that the Super PACs won't sponsor his run. But apparently he's been receiving donations from like-minded people :sick:
 
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