Resetting your bio-rhythms

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mooks

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Is there a way to do this? I've always been a complete night owl and have struggled continuously through out my life to maintain a functional day balanced with a restful night. Given the slightest release in daytime responsibilities, I naturally start to swap day and night.

With the help of sleeping pills, exercise and sheer determination (and flexi time at work :D ) I manage to keep a balance these days but it is still blatantly obvious to me that my productivity and focus actually increases as it gets later. My most productive hours are from 4pm/5pm onwards and I find it disruptive to leave the office at 6 or 7 because I feel like I'm in such a concentrated work groove.

Any tips on how to force this flip? I also have this slightly obscure theory that my body is built for a 26 - 27 hr day as opposed to 24hrs - if I get enough sleep that I feel rested when I wake up (around 7-8hrs), I cant fall asleep fast enough to get another 8hrs before my alarm goes off the next morning, which means my clock shifts by 2-3 hrs and I find myself back at square one.

This may seem inconsequential, but I can't keep taking sleeping pills and I'm beyond bored with the sleep battle every night.

(for the record, once I'm asleep I sleep well)
 
Hmmm ... change the lighting in your room. Its experimental but light plays an important role in your body's ability to secrete melotonin which is the hormone that puts you to sleep.

NASA currently uses phototherapy to "change" the rhythm of their astronaughts and do exactly what you asking "flip the switch". Now im not saying go get this done but perhaps a more simple method can be tried/improvised. Drug therapy is not very good for changing patterns.

Its experimental and I dont know the details of the therapy but I understand the mechanics behind it though not in great deal. I cant advise you how to improvise your own method. I would assume to FORCE yourself awake early in the morning by allowing sunlight into your room (and an alarm clock). The eyes react to sunlight (the rod cells) and that begins the process of getting up from a deep sleep. If you can manage that you should be tired later in the evening when you want to sleep. If you can repeat this process for a good couple of weeks you should be able to augment your habbitual sleep paterns

Also no sugar drinks caffeine and so on
 
I know for jet lag, if you fast at exactly the right moment then it can help. No food = dangerous state = wide alert to hunt.

Also prone to 25+ hr days, so each day gets later. During vacation that can screw you over pretty solid. Gets to a point where everything is reversed....waking up when it gets dark etc.
 
File:Biological_clock_human.svg


Circadian rhythm disorders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm
 
I know of people taking Melatonin for this..
 
Dean said:
I know of people taking Melatonin for this..
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that would make it worse as you will disrupt the body's natural production of the hormone.
 
RiaX said:
that would make it worse as you will disrupt the body's natural production of the hormone.
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You only need to take it once or thrice in order to shift the rhythm. Should be fairly safe.
 
RiaX said:
that would make it worse as you will disrupt the body's natural production of the hormone.
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Doesn't seem like OP's body's natural production of it is 'regular' at the moment. Having said that, I only said that I know of people who have taken it for this purpose, because I would never give someone medical advice without having them consult their own relevant doctor/s.
 
RiaX said:
that would make it worse as you will disrupt the body's natural production of the hormone.
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People already disrupt the "natural production" with artificial lighting.

http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin
  1. electrical lighting and electrical devices in particular emit blue light
  2. blue light inhibits increase of melatonin levels
  3. melatonin supplementation increases melatonin levels
  4. increase in melatonin levels is necessary to sleep well
  5. either eliminating electricity or melatonin supplementation will cause melatonin levels to rise
  6. one will not eliminate electricity
  7. one can use melatonin supplementation
  8. it works
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RiaX said:
Yes and if you guys read what the OP said
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Melatonin is hardly the same as sleeping pills.


RiaX said:
hence why I suggested
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Yes, changing lighting in the room would help, but he would need to be in the darkened room way before he wanted to sleep. The point being that most lighting emits blue light, which suppresses melatonin production. Melatonin production isn't an immediate on/off switch, and just changing the light in the room where he sleeps won't be all that helpful. Hence supplementing with melatonin (not even at full dose, 500mg should be plenty), will be way more helpful.
 
RiaX said:
lol im quite aware what melatonin is. I sell it :p
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Any suggestions on brand? I bought a "proudly South African" version, can't remember the brand offhand. Not Solal. It came in 1500mg pills which I had to open up to measure a 500mg dose (slightly less than an eighth of a teaspoon).
 
fastesthamster said:
Any suggestions on brand? I bought a "proudly South African" version, can't remember the brand offhand. Not Solal. It came in 1500mg pills which I had to open up to measure a 500mg dose (slightly less than an eighth of a teaspoon).
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They more or less the same. Find one that has a dosage form you like. Melotonin is a hormone that the body secretes and like all hormones its controlled by a negativve feedback system so the more you use it the more you will require it.

Its meant for a 2 or 3 day course not more than that. Hence why its been rescheduled to s4. Chronic use will develop insomnia in the patients.

Personally I would rather use the s5 sleeping agents if you going to the doctor anyways. Cheaper and far more effect and in accute use safer as well. Hormone cycles can shift fairly easily but actual addicition to a substance takes some time.

The only true non prescription way to combat insomnia is a lifestyle change. Which should be done first before introducing artificial agents
 
RiaX said:
They more or less the same. Find one that has a dosage form you like. Melotonin is a hormone that the body secretes and like all hormones its controlled by a negativve feedback system so the more you use it the more you will require it.

Its meant for a 2 or 3 day course not more than that. Hence why its been rescheduled to s4. Chronic use will develop insomnia in the patients.

Personally I would rather use the s5 sleeping agents if you going to the doctor anyways. Cheaper and far more effect and in accute use safer as well. Hormone cycles can shift fairly easily but actual addicition to a substance takes some time.

The only true non prescription way to combat insomnia is a lifestyle change. Which should be done first before introducing artificial agents
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I haven't found any article that melatonin use can result in insomnia. One article specifically states that they find "no evidence of changes in the duration of endogenous melatonin secretion". Although this was only a 13 day trial. Here is a one month study, which found no changes in other hormone secretion. It wasn't really looking at melatonin secretion though, but does say, "In children, a dose of 2.5–10 mg per day given for several years successfully alleviated sleep disorders. " In that study spanning several years "side effects or the development of tolerance have not been observed."

In terms of tolerance, the following article states "Sleep maintenance and initiation were further improved following the 2-month 1-mg sustained-release melatonin treatment, indicating that tolerance had not developed. After cessation of treatment, sleep quality deteriorated. Our findings suggest that for melatonin-deficient elderly insomniacs, melatonin replacement therapy may be beneficial in the initiation and maintenance of sleep." Bear in mind this is for people who had sleep problems to begin with.


AvatarS said:
So it needs a prescription now?
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Only if you say it's not for jet-lag. Jet-lag use is schedule 2.
 
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fastesthamster said:
... snip ...
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Careful when you look at academic works. They answer very specific questions. You need to look for a literature review on melotonin.

Though its simple like most negative feedback systems the brain will realise there is too much of the hormone and shut it down. Same like with anabolic steroids the system is the same for all hormones in the body.

Yes but now when you have sleeping issues the idea is to try and address the issue for a curative measure with modifying diet and lifestyle. Carbohydrates will keep you awake when the blood sugar goes up so a hefty supper can cause insomnia once it digests (thats after what I like to call 'python mode')

Using melotonin chronically like zolpidem or zopiclone will cause the same problem though, I suspect melotonin will be harder to remove as its an endogenous hormone. The 13 day trial is pertinant for its recommended use but how many people are actually using it as recommended ? very few they use it as a sleeping pill which is why it was rescheduled the general public forced the MCC's hand. Its not a cure for insomnia like most they are aids till you sort your life style out (of course proper psychiatric patients are exempt from this). Melotonin is also not meant for chronic use
 
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