Reverse engineering software should be allowed, says Trade & Industry Dept.

What are or 'international treaty obligations'

South Africa should allow software to be adapted to local needs through copyright legislation that allows reverse engineering of computer software programs consistent with its international treaty obligations.
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Reverse engineering a piece of software and then creating another product (or the same product) out of it is theft. If this is allowed, then Piracy should be allowed.... or am I completely missing the boat here ?
 
Of course it should be allowed. And not only computer programs. Why to make illegal things which have not neccessary criminal intent. Frequently purely educational purpose. If something has intelectual value and carries innovation, it can be protected by patenting system.
 
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phiber said:
What are or 'international treaty obligations'

Reverse engineering a piece of software and then creating another product (or the same product) out of it is theft. If this is allowed, then Piracy should be allowed.... or am I completely missing the boat here ?
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I suppose it depends what is meant by reverse engineering... If you recompile the source with new licensing and trademarks then it is theft.
 
Yay! No I can finally legitimately hack into Microsoft Office - make some changes, and launch my own Microsoft Kantoor program....
 
MagicDude4Eva said:
Nothing new - most countries (New Zealand / Australia) have provisions for this.
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It's also not surprising that SA has no provisions for this, we're sitting with a government who don't really know that something like the internet exists, and that computers are all smoke & mirrors.
 
Yeah big surprise that the DTI would ecourage SA companies to rip off foreign companies products
 
Reverse engineering is not necessarily about trying to duplicate the software, it is also about making other things work with said software. E.g. reverse engineering MS Exchange protocols so you can make an email client that can work with an Exchange server. That and allowing you to build on top of a system that tries to lock you out - like building an add on for an Exchange server to allow file sharing for example (to continue on the same example).
 
Bern said:
Reverse engineering is not necessarily about trying to duplicate the software, it is also about making other things work with said software.
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Exactly. That's where that "consistent with its international treaty obligations" clause comes in, I'd wager. Another example is trying to make your program compatible with another's file format.
 
Bern said:
Reverse engineering is not necessarily about trying to duplicate the software, it is also about making other things work with said software. E.g. reverse engineering MS Exchange protocols so you can make an email client that can work with an Exchange server. That and allowing you to build on top of a system that tries to lock you out - like building an add on for an Exchange server to allow file sharing for example (to continue on the same example).
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That's what APIs are for, and its up to the developers to decide what interfaces are exposed.
 
Bern said:
Reverse engineering is not necessarily about trying to duplicate the software, it is also about making other things work with said software.
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+1. Besides, have you ever tried to reverse enngineer other software? You have no idea how much crap and unneccessary complications can be find there, some serve no purpose or just to comply with proprietary or licensing requirements. It is always easier to write your own from scratch.
 
Bern said:
Reverse engineering is not necessarily about trying to duplicate the software, it is also about making other things work with said software. E.g. reverse engineering MS Exchange protocols so you can make an email client that can work with an Exchange server. That and allowing you to build on top of a system that tries to lock you out - like building an add on for an Exchange server to allow file sharing for example (to continue on the same example).
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If company x does not want you to use their protocol/software, then that should be the end of it.
That being said, I have done a fair amount of reverse engineering in my life. But if it is against the wishes of the content owners, then it is ethically very dodgy
 
phiber said:
That's what APIs are for, and its up to the developers to decide what interfaces are exposed.
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Unfortunately those APIs are not always good, so you have to "build your own" to make it do what you need it to do. Also sometimes their developers are not very good in the area of work you need done, but the brilliant management at said company wants to "own" everything. Then you have to get around this kind of stupidity some how.
 
Bern said:
Unfortunately those APIs are not always good, so you have to "build your own" to make it do what you need it to do. Also sometimes their developers are not very good in the area of work you need done, but the brilliant management at said company wants to "own" everything. Then you have to get around this kind of stupidity some how.
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and there is a reason for that. Companies spends millions of rands and years of manpower in developing and growing and maintaining their software. That is why you need to contact them get permission and pay the required fees to build your own API if they give you permission.

supporting this move is supporting piracy. Nothing more nothing less.
 
I agree with Bern's reasons for allowing the concept of reverse engineering.

House said:
Yay! No I can finally legitimately hack into Microsoft Office - make some changes, and launch my own Microsoft Kantoor program....
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You really don't want to play Microsoft Office in reverse, that will open the Gates of Hell and bring about the apocalypse.
 
sajunky said:
Of course it should be allowed. And not only computer programs. Why to make illegal things which have not neccessary criminal intent. Frequently purely educational purpose. If something has intelectual value and carries innovation, it can be protected by patenting system.
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Especially R200 notes
 
sajunky said:
+1. Besides, have you ever tried to reverse enngineer other software? You have no idea how much crap and unneccessary complications can be find there, some serve no purpose or just to comply with proprietary or licensing requirements. It is always easier to write your own from scratch.
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No so sure anymore with the new interpreted langs. They seem to be a hell of a lot easier to reverse.

Reversing pure ASM is a mission sure, but your generally just looking at reverse one piece of it.
 
phiber said:
Reverse engineering a piece of software and then creating another product (or the same product) out of it is theft. If this is allowed, then Piracy should be allowed.... or am I completely missing the boat here ?
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BS!

It gets done all the time and legally as well.

You have to be careful how you do it. You need two teams, the one that dissects and analyses things who then write up a spec sheet. Spec sheet is passed on to team two that writes the new code. This prevents original code from leaking into the reverse engineered product.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_wall#Computer_science
 
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