Robberies decline by over 40 percent

[BobbyMac]

There is absoulutely no point in making the same points or arguments. He was trying to save us some time, I guess it didn't work.

Ok. Let's start a thread and then off the bat just state all the possible responses from the various members and lock the thread then.

Champion idea there.

 

[xtermin8or]

More like flamebaiting while I waited for my code to compile. Stupid laptop


I just knew there would be very little good said about this

Well, it's quite obvious that any success by the armed forces in the country, undermines the oppositions use of crime as a political stepping stone

 

[xtermin8or]

Ok. Let's start a thread and then off the bat just state all the possible responses from the various members and lock the thread then.

Champion idea there.

I think it was posted half in jest, get a sense of humour, or is there just no hope for you

 

[BobbyMac]

I think it was posted half in jest, get a sense of humour, or is there just no hope for you

Depends. Do you swallow?

 

[RichardP]

I thought these stats only involved solved cases? So perhaps less cases are being solved? Or perhaps they have sub divided the stats again? I cant see the results on the ground yet.

can you see 6000 more people being thrown in to jail? .. and those numbers are for the FESTIVE Period ONLY!
The stats are reported cases, not prosecuted and convicted.

 

[xtermin8or]

I thought these stats only involved solved cases? So perhaps less cases are being solved? Or perhaps they have sub divided the stats again? I cant see the results on the ground yet.

I don't know who told you that, but the stats are based on reported cases

BTW - can I have some of what you're smoking

 

[xtermin8or]

Missing : BobbyMac's brain
REWARD : Nothing, it's been gone so long, no-one will know the difference if it's found

 

[RichardP]

So you would rather see no reduction at all ? here are all the figures of people arrested over the same period

.

Its not a start... the police can arrest 100000000000000000 people a week, but the weak legal system will have them all back on the street in weeks.

The Police force are working their ass off... but the Legal system and Jail infrastructure is messed up - there is no room for more convicts. Look at the whole problem, not just one aspect. The Police just re-arrest the same people over and over again.

The Police force is part of the law enforcement... but its NOT an law enforcement body - thats what the court is for. Police interpret the LAW, and then present the facts to the courts.

 

[BobbyMac]

Missing : BobbyMac's brain
REWARD : Nothing, it's been gone so long, no-one will know the difference if it's found

Haha, funny - that's exactly what your momma told me last night about you.

 

[LottaFun]

A year ago the police reported murder figures in the region of 18000. Interpol reported that the police was wrong and the figures were in the region of
22000. But the truth actually came from some or other hospital organisation who reported 25000 death's. I believe the hospital one as they transport the victims of murder to the morg or hospital. How can their figures be wrong? Why would they inflate the amount of people that they transported?

I have no trust in any figure that the government releases.

 

[xtermin8or]

Look at the whole problem, not just one aspect. The Police just re-arrest the same people over and over again.

The Police force is part of the law enforcement... but its NOT an law enforcement body - thats what the court is for. Police interpret the LAW, and then present the facts to the courts.

This is what is being done on those fronts

STRENGHTHENING THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM:

Transformation of the judiciary

“The transformation of the judiciary will be accelerated, guided by the imperative to institute judicial accountability and the need to improve the overall functioning of the Criminal Justice System with respect, particularly, to case cycle times and conviction rates. As part of the process the Justice College will be revitalised to comply with changes and developments within the South African education and training environment.”

Focusing on bills

Bills relating to the Transformation of the Judiciary: The Judicial Service Commission (JSC) Amendment Bill contains procedures and mechanisms to handle complaints against judicial officers. The Bill emanates from section 180 of the Constitution, which provides that national legislation for any matter concerning the administration of justice that is not dealt with in the Constitution, including “ procedures for dealing with complaints about judicial officers”. The Bill also makes provision for the establishment introduction of an asset register for judges, similar to that applicable to the Legislature and Executive. (Clause 13). This proposal is in line with international standards and will address the recent incidents involving certain senior judicial officers.

South African Judicial Education Institute Bill seeks to establish an Institute responsible for judicial education and training of judicial officers and aspiring judicial officers. There has been extensive consultation and involvement of relevant role players in the process. This include establishment of an Advisory Committee on Judicial Education to draft a framework for Judicial Education for the South African judiciary. The Advisory committee is chaired by Deputy Justice and it includes the magistracy, NPA legal profession, academic institutions.

Reducing the backlog of cases pending trial remains a key priority for the cluster.

A National Backlog Project was implemented to reduce the high volume of

backlog cases on the court rolls and to improve the efficient and effective

functioning of the courts. This project aims to reduce the court backlogs by 20%

and District, Regional and High Courts between 16 August 2006 and the end of

June 2007 and to reduce the appeal backlog by 40%.

In general we view a backlog case in Lower and High Courts in the following context:

§ In the Lower Courts, it is a case that exceeds the cycle time of 6 months from the date of first appearance in the District or Regional Court; and

§ In the High Court, it is a case that exceeds the cycle time of 12 months from the date of first appearance in the High Court.

Factors that contribute to the backlog of cases include:

§ The high level of non-attendance of court proceedings by accused (average of 15 155 warrants of arrest per month).

§ Incomplete investigations/ lack of forensic analysis capacity causing unnecessary delays are furthermore detrimental to the backlog of cases (National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) audit of regional magistrate and high court cases for 2005, indicate 23% of all such cases had to be remanded for further investigation).

The e-Scheduler, a case management system, providing case management information to enhance case planning and scheduling has been implemented in more than 200 Courts and is being rolled out to all district courts in the country. The target date for completion of the roll out is July 2007.

The system seeks to modernize the Court system through greater use of IT. It allows the user to the generate information on the Courts which indicate at which stage is the case including case number, first appearance, last postponement date, no of days per case in the roll. The system enables the Courts to identify and address backlogs and blockages. The Justice Deposit Account System (JDAS) helps to improve the management of all cash payments into and from the Courts. This includes management of cash monies paid for maintenance and bail.

We are reconstructing the court administration system by way of a project we have named Re Aga Boswa (We are building). The project is designed to employ dedicated managers for the courts. We have appointed, for that purpose, 288 court managers across the country thus strengthening capacity and improving service delivery.

In order to deal decisively with white collar and gender based crimes, the cluster will also intensify programmes to set up specialized courts to deal with commercial crimes and cases related to women and child abuse. The National Anti-Rape strategy will also be finalized this year to deal decisively with the management of gender based violence. The strategy will provide impetus to the work being done to reduce gender-based violence, improve reaction in cases of gender-based violence and improve support for victims and witnesses in cases of gender based violence.

MANAGEMENT OF AWAITING TRIAL DETAINEES (ATDs) (DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES)

Correctional Services has established a Remand Detention Project Team led by a Chief Director to drive the implementation of a Cabinet directive of establishing appropriate systems, facilities and technology to effectively manage awaiting trial detainees (ATDs). Of the 159 000 incarcerated offenders, 47 042 are awaiting trail detainees, putting significant strain on already congested facilities. The Remand Detention Project is meant to reduce risks imposed by ATDs on public safety while improving compliance with constitutional imperatives in terms of access to basic services like education, health and other social services for those regarded as innocent until proven guilty. The Project Team is already helping in accelerating the following interventions:

development of policies, appropriate legislation and procedures for consideration and approval during the 2007-8 financial year;


Identification of suitable facilities for conversion or dedicated use as remand detention facilities across the country;


Optimising the use of technology including the tracking and electronic monitoring of the accused so that where appropriate non-custodial options are utilized to also reduce overcrowding; and


Ensuring integrated information management system across the criminal justices system for helping in decision making.



Development of the long term options for an appropriate, functionally distinct and resourced remand detention system in South Africa with appropriate staff, dedicated management system, dedicated remand detention facilities, appropriate resourcing and budget to be tabled in Cabinet in 2008/9.

Construction of correctional centres

The construction of the Kimberley Correctional Centre is fully on course and is set for finalisation before the end of the 2008-9 financial year. Discussions are continuing between National Treasury, Public Works and Correctional Services regarding among others ensuring availability of funds to build the remaining planned facilities in a context of escalating costs that are propelled by a huge demand in the infrastructure development programme nationally.
Implementation of the Jali Commission Recommendations

Progress is being made in implementing the recommendations of the Jali Commission and the Department of Correctional Services expects to conclude all cases and close the chapter by November 2007. A centralised Departmental Task Team dealing with 106 outstanding misconduct cases has concluded 33 cases, handed over 6 cases for criminal prosecution, is hearing 20 cases, handed one case to SAPS and another case to Health Professions Council as they involved a member of the SAPS and an independent health professional.

via email

 

[xtermin8or]

A year ago the police reported murder figures in the region of 18000. Interpol reported that the police was wrong and the figures were in the region of
22000. But the truth actually came from some or other hospital organisation who reported 25000 death's. I believe the hospital one as they transport the victims of murder to the morg or hospital. How can their figures be wrong? Why would they inflate the amount of people that they transported?

I have no trust in any figure that the government releases.

how about a source for those figures you say were reported about a year ago

 

[xtermin8or]

Haha, funny - that's exactly what your momma told me last night about you.

Wow, didn't know you were into self-degradation - what else self-flagulation too

 

[RichardP]

This is what is being done on those fronts

yes, I do acnowledge - but they are BILLS .. and things that *ARE YET TO HAPPEN* the problem is NOW.

The Police force are taking strain NOW, at this moment in time.(most of them.. some are playing Golf) The report doesnt say much about that Judge that went home at 4pm - and the police could not hold a hardned criminal any longer... so they had to let him go.

The facts speak louder than 'reports' and 'plans of action' ... they must put their money where their mouth is.

If you have any follow up reports on the success of the justice system reform, please feel free to post. As most of the deadlines in the report have lapsed. One prision facility in Kimberly doesnt make the grade.

The New HARNIS system is in limbo again... the Home Affairs office is a mess. Time for talk is over...

 

[BobbyMac]

RichardP: why do you even bother?

 

[xtermin8or]

yes, I do acnowledge - but they are BILLS .. and things that *ARE YET TO HAPPEN* the problem is NOW.

The Police force are taking strain NOW, at this moment in time.

Do you really expect, new prisons, new legislation and policy to magically appear, these things take time, and at least there is a plan of action - an admission perhaps that there are problems in the Criminal Justice system

The Judge who left at four, I am not familiar with the case, but all that is usually done is that the Investigating Officer will tell the prosecutor what's happening, the case will be called and the matter postponed and the crim remanded in custody - AFAIK - courts, unless under exceptional circumstances sit until four

As for the deadlines elapsed in the report - not sure what you are talking about - but the statement I posted is from the Justice Crime Prevention and Security Cluster who met today

 

[kilo39]

Millions meant for four new prisons 'unspent'
October 24 2006 By Linda Daniels

Despite assurances by the Department of Correctional Services that four new prisons are on track, the Treasury has confirmed that millions of rands for their construction has been surrendered to the national revenue fund.

The new prisons in Leeuwkop, Nigel, Klerksdorp and Kimberley were first announced in 2002, but it appears unlikely that they will be built.

What I would like to know is what happens to Correctional Services overall 9 billion rand budget (could swear that was the figure I heard.) Yet our prisons are a cesspool (a crime against humanity) and nothing happens?

 

[RichardP]

Do you really expect, new prisons, new legislation and policy to magically appear, these things take time, and at least there is a plan of action - an admission perhaps that there are problems in the Criminal Justice system

The Judge who left at four, I am not familiar with the case, but all that is usually done is that the Investigating Officer will tell the prosecutor what's happening, the case will be called and the matter postponed and the crim remanded in custody - AFAIK - courts, unless under exceptional circumstances sit until four

As for the deadlines elapsed in the report - not sure what you are talking about - but the statement I posted is from the Justice Crime Prevention and Security Cluster who met today

TODAY!!! is that how long it took to realise there is a problem!!! Acknowledging there is a problem is only 1/2 way... FIXING the problem is the rest. I dont really care whats on paper, actions speak louder than words.

Go to your bank and say to them "I acknowledge I cant pay, please bear with me until I reform my home finances" ...

 

[kilo39]

how about a source for those figures you say were reported about a year ago

The magnitude of crime in South Africa “should be considered a human rights violation”, according to the latest United States Department of State Human Rights Report.
Among the crimes it notes as human rights violations are a staggering 23 453 children raped, 1 075 murdered and 20 879 assaulted last year alone.
Government “generally” respects the human rights of South African citizens, the report says, but it argues that the blame for a number of violations can be laid at government’s door because it fails to provide a safe and secure climate.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=68665

.

 

[xtermin8or]

What I would like to know is what happens to Correctional Services overall 9 billion rand budget (could swear that was the figure I heard.) Yet our prisons are a cesspool (a crime against humanity) and nothing happens?

The money was surrendered to the National Revenue Fund, which means it is still in Govt's hands and can therefore still be used to build the Prison.

Two or three years ago, I rememebr being told that it costs fifty rand to keep a prisoner in prison per day - so if someone has the number of prisoners we can work out what it costs