Ron Paul: American Elections

Doesn't make a difference, Ron Paul won't ever be elected.

I just hope that douchebag Paul Ryan stays far away from the White House too.
 
empirex said:
I'm no financial expert, so maybe you can lend some assistance... but the only reason why the continued massive printing of Dollars by America to pay off their debts (I think since 2007?) hasn't led to hyperinflation (like it has in all other countries attempting the same) is because the US Dollar is the world's reserve currency.

Countries for the moment are still holding on to their Dollars, but the rumours are doing the rounds that countries like China, who have billions invested in Dollars, will at some point jump ship and dump them.
I'm sorry but guys like ghoti who call Paul's economic policies "retarded" haven't looked at the current financial sink-hole that is the American economy. At this point you HAVE to have radicial ideas to fix radical problems. Business as usual is a guaranteed ticket to collapse.

Anyone who argues that a country should have their money printed by a private company; then have that money loaned back to the government (at face value); including interest; all while that company prints a $100 note for what, a $0.05 cost, should not be let anywhere near a presidency. In this case that private company is the Federal Reserve. Anyone with half a financial brain can see that the Federal Reserve needs to be shut down asap and have government take back the reigns of the issuing of money in the US. Kennedy tried but it cost him his life.
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And go back to what? The gold standard?

There's a reason why we changed to what it is now. The previous system was crappier
 
empirex said:
I'm no financial expert, so maybe you can lend some assistance... but the only reason why the continued massive printing of Dollars by America to pay off their debts (I think since 2007?) hasn't led to hyperinflation (like it has in all other countries attempting the same) is because the US Dollar is the world's reserve currency.

Countries for the moment are still holding on to their Dollars, but the rumours are doing the rounds that countries like China, who have billions invested in Dollars, will at some point jump ship and dump them.
I'm sorry but guys like ghoti who call Paul's economic policies "retarded" haven't looked at the current financial sink-hole that is the American economy. At this point you HAVE to have radicial ideas to fix radical problems. Business as usual is a guaranteed ticket to collapse.

Anyone who argues that a country should have their money printed by a private company; then have that money loaned back to the government (at face value); including interest; all while that company prints a $100 note for what, a $0.05 cost, should not be let anywhere near a presidency. In this case that private company is the Federal Reserve. Anyone with half a financial brain can see that the Federal Reserve needs to be shut down asap and have government take back the reigns of the issuing of money in the US. Kennedy tried but it cost him his life.
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It's not quite that simple.
The problem with economics is that there are multiple competing theories. None of which are actually discredited. But non are perfectly right either.

The reason that the USA managed to recover from the recession so quickly is pure Keynesian economics.
And inflation can be thought of as a good thing.
Think of your homeloan. When you get one, R10 000 pm is a lot of money to you, but in 10 years time, due to inflation, it is a much smaller amount of money to you.

However, understand that is very black & white about this. It all tends to come from whatever perspective you want to push
 
Freshy-ZN said:
From where Im sitting Ron Paul made the most sense in that interview. Krugman was just espousing the same old broken theories that have brought us all dangerously close to the precipice.
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Paul is right in many aspects.
But don't believe all this talk about "precipices". Booms and busts are not necessarily a bad thing. If you want boom years, then a bust will come sooner or later
 
JStrike said:
Paul is right in many aspects.
But don't believe all this talk about "precipices".
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I'm not an alarmist I don't think, but I do believe there is a real possibility of a very serious financial crisis yet to come. One that would make 2008/9 look insignificant and possibly be worse that the Great Depression. That's what I mean by precipice. Can you or anyone say its not a possible scenario at all? I don't think so but neither can anyone say it will happen. Again Im not talking booms and busts I'm talking catastrophe.
 
Freshy-ZN said:
I'm not an alarmist I don't think, but I do believe there is a real possibility of a very serious financial crisis yet to come. One that would make 2008/9 look insignificant and possibly be worse that the Great Depression. That's what I mean by precipice. Can you or anyone say its not a possible scenario at all? I don't think so but neither can anyone say it will happen. Again Im not talking booms and busts I'm talking catastrophe.
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It is entirely possible. But that is not the same as saying it *will* happen.
Paul has many good ideas. But people need to remember that Austrian economic theory is no more right or wrong than the other theories (Well, no one thoery has been proved 100% all of the time)
 
JStrike said:
Paul is right in many aspects.
But don't believe all this talk about "precipices". Booms and busts are not necessarily a bad thing. If you want boom years, then a bust will come sooner or later
Click to expand...

Dont you come into this thread with common sense! The crazy beliefs were entertaining!
 
JStrike said:
It's not quite that simple.
The problem with economics is that there are multiple competing theories. None of which are actually discredited. But non are perfectly right either.

The reason that the USA managed to recover from the recession so quickly is pure Keynesian economics.
And inflation can be thought of as a good thing.
Think of your homeloan. When you get one, R10 000 pm is a lot of money to you, but in 10 years time, due to inflation, it is a much smaller amount of money to you.

However, understand that is very black & white about this. It all tends to come from whatever perspective you want to push
Click to expand...

But surly continuing with status quo is a recipe for disaster, debt is increasing. Even if the US government taxed 100%, the government would still need to borrow money if they are to pay off their debt. That is not sustainable, it is not even logical to think it is possible. The bust is coming, it's not if but when, and probably sooner than most think. I hate being the alarmist in the room, but that's how I see it.


Freshy-ZN said:
I'm not an alarmist I don't think, but I do believe there is a real possibility of a very serious financial crisis yet to come. One that would make 2008/9 look insignificant and possibly be worse that the Great Depression. That's what I mean by precipice. Can you or anyone say its not a possible scenario at all? I don't think so but neither can anyone say it will happen. Again Im not talking booms and busts I'm talking catastrophe.
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Well Gerald Celente, the world's top trends forecaster -- who predicted the fall of the Soviet Union; the '87 stock market crash; the dot-com bust; the 2008 financial meltdown and many many others -- says just that, we are heading towards something far worse than the great depression.

Now here's something to note folks -- this guy makes his living from trend forecasting, not scaremongering -- people buy his Journal / product to make money by investing in 'the future'. In other words, he wouldn't risk his business or whole reputation (which is his literal 'goose that laid the golden egg') on a one-time deal. Use it, don't use it, but it's something to think about.
 
JStrike said:
It is entirely possible. But that is not the same as saying it *will* happen.
Paul has many good ideas. But people need to remember that Austrian economic theory is no more right or wrong than the other theories (Well, no one thoery has been proved 100% all of the time)
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I did not say it will happen, I did say it is possible and you have agreed. I suppose the likelihood is where we may differ. I can also accept that no one economic theory is perfect but why then is the Keynesian approach 'the answer'? Those people (Ghoti for example) who are bashing Ron Paul's ideas are surely saying that there is only one answer - Keynes!
 
Freshy-ZN said:
Those people (Ghoti for example) who are bashing Ron Paul's ideas
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Ill give Ron Paul one thing. I agree with a a couple of his liberal views, I dont agree with his economics. He actually puts a couple of really good views out there that I agree that we should look at more deeply... but when he starts looking at the Austrian school of economics. I cant take him seriously. I do wish Murdoch liked him more... and got the media on him more. He was my favorite to win the GOP.
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Yeah... such a roasting. Poor oke. I flamed him to the end of the earth! I hope he is able to get up from such a hectic bashing from me. Im nicer to Ron Paul than most of the GOP voting base is.
 
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Dude please dont get arsey, I wasnt attacking you. Am I incorrect in saying you do not agree with Paul's economic policies, in fact I get the impression you pretty much dont agree with anything he says? Im actually trying to discuss the opposing viewpoints here.
 
Freshy-ZN said:
Dude please dont get arsey, I wasnt attacking you.
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Ditto bru. Ditto. You called me out by name. Deal with the responses you will get like a man.

I dont agree with his market fundamentalism (as any sane human wouldnt) that he gets from the baked Austrian "school of economics". Thats not to say all his economic policies are stupid, but when he quotes from the Austrians you know you cant take it seriously.

in fact I get the impression you pretty much dont agree with anything he says
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Thats because you dont read what I say. I clearly said earlier in this thread what I thought of him.
 
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I wasn't calling you out I was saying people, for example you, that don't agree with him etc etc etc. Sorry if that came across badly.
 
Freshy-ZN said:
Well then pointless talking to you.
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Thats your call. I dont trust you based on how you interact with me. Its a little hard, based on our past interactions with me, to know where you are creating a psuedo-issue and attacking my character or when you are being genuine and actually want to discuss the issue.
 
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Freshy-ZN said:
Well you don't accept apologies so what am I to do?
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Actions speak louder than words. Stop the constant goes at my personality. How often do I mention you by name? Honestly? I never bring you up. You on the other hand will go straight for me personally as shown in the "Nelson Mandela on the notes" thread.
 
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empirex said:
But surly continuing with status quo is a recipe for disaster, debt is increasing. Even if the US government taxed 100%, the government would still need to borrow money if they are to pay off their debt. That is not sustainable, it is not even logical to think it is possible. The bust is coming, it's not if but when, and probably sooner than most think. I hate being the alarmist in the room, but that's how I see it.




Well Gerald Celente, the world's top trends forecaster -- who predicted the fall of the Soviet Union; the '87 stock market crash; the dot-com bust; the 2008 financial meltdown and many many others -- says just that, we are heading towards something far worse than the great depression.

Now here's something to note folks -- this guy makes his living from trend forecasting, not scaremongering -- people buy his Journal / product to make money by investing in 'the future'. In other words, he wouldn't risk his business or whole reputation (which is his literal 'goose that laid the golden egg') on a one-time deal. Use it, don't use it, but it's something to think about.
Click to expand...

People need to understand that Sovereign debt and household debt are not similar.
Remember that the USA was founded on the concept of them running massive debts, and always paying their debts.
They borrow money, which allows them to expand at a large rate, leaving the result that the repayment amount is a proportionally lower value.

There is a difference between debt where the money is wasted, and debt where it is used to continue growing the economy. The first is very bad, the second is actually a good thing.
 
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