Rugby in general.

cr@zydude

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6,745
SARU have announced that from 2012 the Currie Cup will have 6 teams in the premier division and 8 in the first division. Just another way that SA rugby is getting more top heavy.
 

DWPTA

Expert Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
3,767
SARU have announced that from 2012 the Currie Cup will have 6 teams in the premier division and 8 in the first division. Just another way that SA rugby is getting more top heavy.
Yea, I know of one Union president that di not vote in favour of this move. So don't know where the journalist got his info from.
 

bwana

B MyBroadband
Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
71,187
SARU have announced that from 2012 the Currie Cup will have 6 teams in the premier division and 8 in the first division. Just another way that SA rugby is getting more top heavy.
I guess EP will have some better company in the First Division. :eek:
 

Pitbull

Verboten
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
60,236
Personally,

I think the Currie Cup should be an open all province affair. Like in the older days. (Given there where fewer provinces)
How hard can it be to have 9 provincial teams playing for the right to be the best province in SA?

. Gauteng
. Free state
. Kwazulu Natal
. Mphumalanga
. Northern Cape
. Eastern Cape
. Western Cape
. North West
. Limpopo

And yes I know the Lions and the Bulls are both from Gauteng. Thus they play relegation games prior to the season. Have a first division playing pre-season for a spot
in the contested provinces. After the first division clashes then have the Currie Cup. Even play the first division games 1 season before the next Currie Cup season.

As an example. Lions vs Bulls, 3 games. Winner plays in next year's Currie Cup representing Gaunteng.

Anyway, just my 2c's :p
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
26,781
Personally,

I think the Currie Cup should be an open all province affair. Like in the older days. (Given there where fewer provinces)
How hard can it be to have 9 provincial teams playing for the right to be the best province in SA?

. Gauteng
. Free state
. Kwazulu Natal
. Mphumalanga
. Northern Cape
. Eastern Cape
. Western Cape
. North West
. Limpopo

And yes I know the Lions and the Bulls are both from Gauteng. Thus they play relegation games prior to the season. Have a first division playing pre-season for a spot
in the contested provinces. After the first division clashes then have the Currie Cup. Even play the first division games 1 season before the next Currie Cup season.

As an example. Lions vs Bulls, 3 games. Winner plays in next year's Currie Cup representing Gaunteng.

Anyway, just my 2c's :p
Would be interesting but the problem would be that limpopo vs North west will not have a jam packed stadium :(
 

Pitbull

Verboten
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
60,236
Would be interesting but the problem would be that limpopo vs North west will not have a jam packed stadium :(
It's competitions like this that would drive up support for your local province. Sure Limpopo and North West won't have full stadiums for a couple of seasons. But once
they start building impressive squads and start raking in victories or even a Currie Cup final or 2 then things will change. It all has to start somewhere. And I feel very sad for places like Eastern Cape, Limpopo and North West. They have the players I'm sure of it. They just don't have the platform to show it for their province.

They end up rather playing for places like Bulls, Lions, Free State and Western Province. Having a wider field to play in the Currie Cup would even out the talent and it could bring some very interesting rugby. The only problem is running a Provincial Union with hardly any income for a few years. And I feel SARU and Government can help here by getting these provinces up to scratch with financial support till they start raking in support (with which comes money). It's possible, but it will cost allot of money and allot of time. Both of which SA rugby has.
 

thestaggy

Honorary Master
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
13,006
And yes I know the Lions and the Bulls are both from Gauteng. Thus they play relegation games prior to the season. Have a first division playing pre-season for a spot
in the contested provinces. After the first division clashes then have the Currie Cup. Even play the first division games 1 season before the next Currie Cup season.

As an example. Lions vs Bulls, 3 games. Winner plays in next year's Currie Cup representing Gaunteng.

Anyway, just my 2c's :p
Will NEVER happen. The Lions and Bulls are two of SA's biggest Unions. Granted, the Lions have been in dire shape, but there is no way either is deprived of regular Currie Cup action. The money, the GLRU's current crisis aside, invested in these two is massive. The GLRU invests heavily in the UJ rugby programme as well. And any way, even in the old days Unions and not provinces took part.

Union & year of formation
Boland - 1939
Border - 1891
Falcons/Valke - 1947 (Formerly Eastern Transvaal Rugby Union)
SWD - 1899
Griffons - 1968
Griquas - 1886 (Formerly Griqualand West Rugby Union)
Leopards - 1920
Pumas - 1969 (Formerly South Eastern Transvaal)
 

thestaggy

Honorary Master
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
13,006
The harsh reality here is, the top-4 Currie Cup spots will always be filled by 4 of the 5 big guns. And in recent seasons, only Griquas has shown the ability to scalp one of the bigger unions. A six-team competition makes sense from a competition point of view. As it stands, the teams that finish 7th & 8th get pounded by teams 1 through 5, split wins against each other and one may be lucky enough to scalp Griquas. The last non ''Big Five'' winner of the Currie Cup was Griqualand West in 1970. In actually fact, they are the only other union outside of the ''Big Five'' to have won it in its history. The Currie Cup is predictable.

The sticking point here is the EP Kings. If they are going to be in Super Rugby, they need to get into the Currie Cup. Now, they may get themselves promoted, but then what happens if, in a 6-team competition, they end up 6th and last and are relegated by Griquas? You can't have a Super Rugby union in the First Division, but it would be a travesty to block a team that wins the First Division from having a shot at getting into the Currie Cup.
 

cr@zydude

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6,745
The harsh reality here is, the top-4 Currie Cup spots will always be filled by 4 of the 5 big guns. And in recent seasons, only Griquas has shown the ability to scalp one of the bigger unions. A six-team competition makes sense from a competition point of view. As it stands, the teams that finish 7th & 8th get pounded by teams 1 through 5, split wins against each other and one may be lucky enough to scalp Griquas. The last non ''Big Five'' winner of the Currie Cup was Griqualand West in 1970. In actually fact, they are the only other union outside of the ''Big Five'' to have won it in its history. The Currie Cup is predictable.

The sticking point here is the EP Kings. If they are going to be in Super Rugby, they need to get into the Currie Cup. Now, they may get themselves promoted, but then what happens if, in a 6-team competition, they end up 6th and last and are relegated by Griquas? You can't have a Super Rugby union in the First Division, but it would be a travesty to block a team that wins the First Division from having a shot at getting into the Currie Cup.
Actually that depends on when you consider the Currie Cup to have started. If you chose 1968, from which point the tournement was held each year, you are correct. If you chose 1889 or 1892, then Border have shared the title twice, 1932 and 1934.

@Pitbull, there is no Limpopo team. The Blue Bulls union extents from Gauteng to cover all of Limpopo.
 

Pitbull

Verboten
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
60,236
Actually that depends on when you consider the Currie Cup to have started. If you chose 1968, from which point the tournement was held each year, you are correct. If you chose 1889 or 1892, then Border have shared the title twice, 1932 and 1934.

@Pitbull, there is no Limpopo team. The Blue Bulls union extents from Gauteng to cover all of Limpopo.
This is my point.

The Currie Cup in my opinion should be a Provincial affair. Even if you have to love one of the 2 Big players in Gauteng to open the door for a Limpopo team as an example. Have the Bulls represent Gauteng and move the Lions from Johannesburg. Or other way round. Having 6 teams battling it out just feels like the Currie cup is being watered down. The Currie Cup stands for more than just the 4 big unions. Having it played across 9 provinces will help the sport grow and introduce more talent to it. I love the sport of Rugby and really believe we can do more to grow it beyond the point we're at currently. We have so many awesome new stadiums that should be used. And this could be one way of using them.

By no means am I saying it will be easy, but we need to try and reach all corners of the country and make it possible for people living in PE as an example, to see various amounts of matches played there against all teams in SA. Playing against second rated teams does nothing good for a coach building a team. To become the best you must play the best.

If this isn't possible then someone should start a separate league apart from SARU. To run provincial teams and have a provincial competition to play it self out over a few months. I would support such a league same way I support the Currie Cup.
 

MielieSpoor

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
1,984
@Pitbull, there is no Limpopo team. The Blue Bulls union extents from Gauteng to cover all of Limpopo.
You are wrong and right.

Limpopo is a sub union of the Blue Bulls. In previous days they were know as Far North (Verre Noord). Depending on how you look at it, they do have a team and do compete. They have been trying to form their own independant union from the Bulls for some time and almost achieved it 2009/2010, but because of financial issues they didn't succeed. SA Rugby did not approve of the split because they don't want to / can't give financial support to them like they do for all other unions.

So from a Currie Cup perspective they don't have a team, but in all other competitions they compete independantly from the Blue Bulls. In the amateur competitions they compete as the Blue Bulls Limpopo, Cravenweek etc.

My personal oppinion is that the Currie Cup should stay on 8 teams, start earlier - yes I understand the Super Rugby season never ends. Ditch the Vodacom Cup and expand the Varsity Cup. That will be the best solution as the Vodacom Cup is only costing a lot of people lots of money with no return on investment. Even SuperSport is broadcasting less game each year. Ineterest in the Vodacom Cup is about nothing. The final come and went with about no mention of it this year.

Yes the Currie Cup has been SA's premier event for more than 100 years, but times have changed and it can't take presedance over the SuperRugby season which is an international event and twice (if not more) as big as the Currie Cup. In my opinion there is no reason why the Currie Cup cannot be played alongside the Super Rugby comp for the latter part of the year. For the last few years the Springboks did not take part in the Currie Cup at all except for the last 2 rounds and the finals, so it would be less of a disruption if they are not part of it at all.
 

cr@zydude

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6,745
This is my point.

The Currie Cup in my opinion should be a Provincial affair. Even if you have to love one of the 2 Big players in Gauteng to open the door for a Limpopo team as an example. Have the Bulls represent Gauteng and move the Lions from Johannesburg. Or other way round. Having 6 teams battling it out just feels like the Currie cup is being watered down. The Currie Cup stands for more than just the 4 big unions. Having it played across 9 provinces will help the sport grow and introduce more talent to it. I love the sport of Rugby and really believe we can do more to grow it beyond the point we're at currently. We have so many awesome new stadiums that should be used. And this could be one way of using them.

By no means am I saying it will be easy, but we need to try and reach all corners of the country and make it possible for people living in PE as an example, to see various amounts of matches played there against all teams in SA. Playing against second rated teams does nothing good for a coach building a team. To become the best you must play the best.

If this isn't possible then someone should start a separate league apart from SARU. To run provincial teams and have a provincial competition to play it self out over a few months. I would support such a league same way I support the Currie Cup.
I'd love for that to happen, but it's somply too big of change and highly unlikely to happen.

You are wrong and right.

Limpopo is a sub union of the Blue Bulls. In previous days they were know as Far North (Verre Noord). Depending on how you look at it, they do have a team and do compete. They have been trying to form their own independant union from the Bulls for some time and almost achieved it 2009/2010, but because of financial issues they didn't succeed. SA Rugby did not approve of the split because they don't want to / can't give financial support to them like they do for all other unions.

So from a Currie Cup perspective they don't have a team, but in all other competitions they compete independantly from the Blue Bulls. In the amateur competitions they compete as the Blue Bulls Limpopo, Cravenweek etc.

My personal oppinion is that the Currie Cup should stay on 8 teams, start earlier - yes I understand the Super Rugby season never ends. Ditch the Vodacom Cup and expand the Varsity Cup. That will be the best solution as the Vodacom Cup is only costing a lot of people lots of money with no return on investment. Even SuperSport is broadcasting less game each year. Ineterest in the Vodacom Cup is about nothing. The final come and went with about no mention of it this year.

Yes the Currie Cup has been SA's premier event for more than 100 years, but times have changed and it can't take presedance over the SuperRugby season which is an international event and twice (if not more) as big as the Currie Cup. In my opinion there is no reason why the Currie Cup cannot be played alongside the Super Rugby comp for the latter part of the year. For the last few years the Springboks did not take part in the Currie Cup at all except for the last 2 rounds and the finals, so it would be less of a disruption if they are not part of it at all.
I know that Limpopo send a team to the Craven Week, but assumed it worked in way that some unions send urban and rural based teams. I didn't know that Limpopo tried to from their own union.

I think that your idea is the most workable idea. Super Rugby as the main comp. The Currie Cup as a clearly defined second teir. Play all 14, or more, teams in a competetion from around April to August. Teams play each other once each like the old Super 14 set up, and top 4 go on to semis and a final. No Springbok would ever play in this new set up Currie Cup, but they barely play at present. The Varsity Cup should be expanded, and used as SA's main development league. It should be an all student affair though, and not a place for pros who get dropped by their unions.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
15,940
Personally,

I think the Currie Cup should be an open all province affair. Like in the older days. (Given there where fewer provinces)
How hard can it be to have 9 provincial teams playing for the right to be the best province in SA?

. Gauteng
. Free state
. Kwazulu Natal
. Mphumalanga
. Northern Cape
. Eastern Cape
. Western Cape
. North West
. Limpopo

And yes I know the Lions and the Bulls are both from Gauteng. Thus they play relegation games prior to the season. Have a first division playing pre-season for a spot
in the contested provinces. After the first division clashes then have the Currie Cup. Even play the first division games 1 season before the next Currie Cup season.

As an example. Lions vs Bulls, 3 games. Winner plays in next year's Currie Cup representing Gaunteng.

Anyway, just my 2c's :p
Kak idea.
 

APoc184

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
21,884
Well there is an upset if you ever saw one.

Samoa beating Australia 32-23 in Sydney.

Boks were suppose to attend this match and take notes. Now they will have to check the replay and do the same next Saturday.
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
26,781
Well there is an upset if you ever saw one.

Samoa beating Australia 32-23 in Sydney.

Boks were suppose to attend this match and take notes. Now they will have to check the replay and do the same next Saturday.
Must say there was a bit of a light for the boks... The Aussies did have a super poor game and even some of the senior players performed extremely under par.

I see the Aussies have made seven changes for this wekend's game against the Boks. I hope that we can keep it tight up front and then dictate the game so that they don't let loose some of their game breakers...
 
Top