I agree - R2m isn’t going to get you much there, but at R8m, the house is comparable in size/rooms/etc., but you’ll also find that the fixtures/appliances/AC/materials/etc. tend to be much nicer too, since they’re a smaller percentage of the house price.
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SA Software developer salaries vs The World
- Thread starter Bradley Prior
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I agree - R2m isn’t going to get you much there, but at R8m, the house is comparable in size/rooms/etc., but you’ll also find that the fixtures/appliances/AC/materials/etc. tend to be much nicer too, since they’re a smaller percentage of the house price.
This is certainly the main benefit, for a price of a decent house in SA you wont even get a studio apartment in developed countries.
I think part of the problem is the cost to build and renovate in other countries...
Developed countries don't seem to have the cheap labour that we do here - and the labour they do have are often more skilled = more expensive.
Old colleague of mine spent a few years in NZ, he said cheap labour was both one of the best things and worst things about SA.
The labor aspect is interesting, and has other knock on effects worth considering. For example, say someone in SA wants to update their A/V equipment in their house. This would cost, say $10k labor and $20k equipment. To do the exact same thing in the US may cost $30k labor and $15k equipment (equipment being cheaper), so overall it’s $30k vs $45k, so 50% more expensive in the US.
The knock on effect is that nobody in the US is going to spend 2x the equipment price on labor. More likely, they would opt for $30k labor installing $70k worth of equipment (not additional equipment, just newer/better models). So now they’re at $100k, and it costs 3.3x what an upgrade would cost in SA. However, obviously the end result is very different, but people will still often compare the two total costs like they’re apples to apples (and not just A/V, pools, bathrooms, kitchens, roofs, etc.).
The general point being that the common trope: “The same house in country/city X is Y times more expensive”, usually has the caveat that they’re not actually the same house at all because of the labor vs goods discrepancy.
Funnily enough, in SA to get the same upgrade, you would likely need $10k labor and $70k * 1.5 (or so due to taxes), so it ends up costing $115k total.
Then there’s the risk that you’ve got a bunch of impoverished laborers who know you have $105k of equipment in your house, so one day you come home and it’s all gone, but that’s another story.
damian24
Senior Member
USA
- But try to visit a doctor, get decent medical insurance, In the USA. Brother in law spends R45k a month on medical for his family of 4.
- 5GB prepaid plans come in at around R600/m on the main networks no phone (R1100 with a iphone 12)
- Houses are several multiples more expensive but the interest rate is much lower, still even a 1 bed rental costs R18000/m in MN
- for a family of 4 expect around R15k on (decent) meals monthly
- The developer salary for USA is very low and the average is closer to usd89k, seniors are more like usd120k a year (starting salary).
- mandated leave is only 10 days!
- public health is free
- prepaid around R300 for 6GB and 250 minutes, phone contracts (around R1200/m for iphone 12) - also main networks, GiffGaff (my network) and `smarty are a lot cheaper.
- houses are more expensive, (rentals around R10k/month for 1 bedroom in the North) + you (as the tenant) pay council tax (another R1600 a month)
- Food, around R8k for family of 4, meat and imported booze is crazy pricey. (Chicken and Pork are closest depending on where you buy - Aldi and Lidl are lowest mostly)
- Salary about right (for a junior, def not a senior), but pension is usually on top of that -also thats not anywhere near a London salary.
- 30 days leave.
- and takeout is super expensive Nandos Pita and chips runs R180 vs like R70 in RSA...
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For most professionals, including software developers, this is paid for by the company, and is counted separately to salary and TC. It also typically includes dental and vision plans, which are pretty uncommon in SA.
My backup internet prepaid is $60k for unlimited. Probably worth the additional R300.
And the interest is tax deductible.
There is so much more than salary on offer though. ESPP, RSUs, 401k matching, options, bonuses, etc. Salary has only been a fraction of my compensation for many years.
Yeah, this is left to market forces, but I’ve never heard of anything that offers less than 15 in practice and 20-25 is more common, sometimes granted after enough tenure.
Pretty much how it works.. good for those that want the labour to get things done but bad for workers as there is no QoL equivalent to what the same job abroad affords.
That brings about a debate on economic models and whether SA is poorer for choosing this model and trapping itself rather than going the other way. Chicken and egg.. yes and no. Problem SA has been having is globalization hasn’t aided the situation.
As a colleague from north of our borders once told me.. in Africa you can be broke but ok.. but in SA you way worse off even with a basic unskilled job. It’s hard to explain it but does feel like it.
It’s interesting vs UK stuff.. at one stage was investigating jobs there and got a few interviews etc. always annoyed me when they try end law ball people when I do homework on costs and typical salaries and teh got nope.. the typical is way lower lol. Granted when u get lowballed u just move on as fast.
richjdavies
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For new immigrants you have to pay upfront AND pay tax every month just like everyone else. And then you wait 6 months to see a specialist.
The NHS is much closer to SAs free public health than Discovery plus!
damian24
Senior Member
it's not Discovery, but trust me... it's nowhere near South African public health standards!
Yes, if you don't have a Irish or British passport, you'll be paying the NHS surcharge of £625/year for up to 5 years as part of you visa.
The Voice
Honorary Master
You've clearly never had to use a hospital here - the majority are SA medical aid level. Yes, GP referrals take a bit longer, but that's what has to happen to preserve a "free" service. Can't just be sending people to specialists willy-nilly (there are people who take up precious A&E space every weekend because they're hung over, so you can imagine what people go to GPs for).
And the surcharge was introduced to discourage "health tourism". I paid for it when I applied to come over here, though it was "only" £1000 then (£200 x 5 years for the duration of the visa). Can dig up loads of examples of health tourism, like women coming here 8 months pregnant, having their children here for free, then going back to whatever country they're native to.
Good luck to them with that... Quality comes with a price tag.
The Voice
Honorary Master
richjdavies
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Well, I lived there for 30 years from birth... And played rugby through high school and university... So did have some experience of it yes!
Being told by my GP in Wales "you'll be waiting 2 years before seeing anyone" about a pretty bad knee pain, isn't quite the same experience I got here (i.e. just went straight to Ortho, was in surgery days later...)
NHS is nothing like private. But I agree, its much better than the worst provinces public system. Don't know if Cape Town's big hospitals are that bad for things like cancer etc though...
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
It’s unbelievable how upper management can’t figure this out while sinking their own ship.
I left my previous company a year or so ago because I saw the writing on the wall, over Christmas (yea they are that cuntish) they retrenched my entire old team in favour of one in Bangalore.
Of course they are useless and customers are making plans to leave soon as their contracts are up but worse the attrition of useful staff needing to deal with it means there won’t be anyone with decades of institutional knowledge left to help Bangalore.
So I reckon within a year or three the company will be ****ed or at the very least no longer be the market leader.
Stupid greed, plain and simple.
The Voice
Honorary Master
I take it back! But also, I guess it's regional, then. Was treated for 4 heart attacks in Kingston and St. George's hospitals. 1st class service from everyone all the way through until discharge, and then again for my recovery work.
GPs are long, I agree: just too few of them around, and they're just too busy, especially on Monday/Tuesday when people are probably trying to get off work after a rough weekend. I remember having to go for referrals for gastrointestinal stuff (meds keeping me alive kind of burnt holes into my stomach lining, it turned out), and I missed the first appointment they made 3 months after being referred by my GP (who was quite good) because the girl at the front desk never sent the appointment letter. Got another appointment soon after, but still...
The Voice
Honorary Master
Yours owned by an American conglomerate that doesn't have a clue how UK businesses run, too?